Give the rest a brake

[QSHIPQ <QSHIPQ@aol.com>]

Dave writes:
>easy to say....
>facts don't bear you out. 
>fact: the mb/rr ur-q braked better than the lancia delta integrale (various
>mags).

How 'bout "Both sucked"?  G60's on an Urq is an upgrade many have done.
BTdroveThat.  They still fade easily.  The fact that they are 'better' than
the competition, hardly makes them good.

>fact: the a4 brakes better than the e36 (car mag).
Not all of us own A4's.  

>fact: the a3 has the best brakes in it's class (preformance car), and 70mph-0
>times are less than 10' from a 993.

Not ANY of us own A3's.  Nice if you are buying new.  Let me help you out
Dave.  "Audi brakes woefully sucked for 15 years in the USA, this year (as
Dave points out) things changed."  Ok, I'm with you.  I believe every single
reference to upgrades mentioned here on the list specifically EXCLUDE every
car fact you include here, Dave.  Let's not get lost in the "facts", this is
the highest interest in a performance mod for quite some time.  And legitimate
too, your tangent "facts" aside.

>fact: the s4 brakes better than the m3, but worse than the c43.
>now i'm not saying that putting g60's on an s2 was the best braking job audi
>ever did, but they did upgrade the stoppers in '93.

Audi has been the last to board the brake performance in the market in which
they compete.  Action or Reaction.  I claim the latter.  Kudos to BMW and Merc
for whacking audis helmets.

>you've got to remember that braking performance has improved out-of-sight
over
>the last 20 years.  look at the 911 for instance.  you've also got to
remember
>that most people don't even touch their brakes until the pads wear out.  so
>their braking performance deteriorates over time.  to say nothing of tyre
>performance and quality.  just by upgrading the tyre to today's tyres, would
>see significant improvements in braking performance.
>not that upgrading brakes is a bad idea, particularly if you drive like some
of
>us seem to...

Most people don't touch there brakes until the pads wear out.  Good point.
Another reason to be careful with the "race caliper" kits, they require more
than casual touching.  Tires can help, but understand, if fade is the problem,
tires don't help, they actually hurt.  Why?  Cuz better tires will reduce
stopping distance, they don't do squat for heat dissipation.  So, it would
depend on your definition of 'performance'.  Stopping distance is just one of
the evaluations.  When your foot goes to the floor with fade, the last time
you got that 110foot stop doesn't give you much bragging rights.  Nice tires
tho.  :)

I think very few of us would say that the stopping distances of G60's is
"poor".  Just about everyone on this thread that is looking at upgrades, knows
about the "poor" fade characteristics of G60's.

Interesting to note as well, those rear brakes on audis (again exceptions so
noted) seem to last forever.  And until 1995, all ABS quattros had only 3
brakes lines, a single to the rear of the car.  And all fwd cars with ABS had
4.  Interesting what awd does to braking compromises.  Torsen and non-torsens
included here.

Dave, all your "facts" so noted, you are hardly making any points to the folks
here with btdt "facts" to date.  I suppose we could all buy new audis with
'great' brakes.  Or we could continue this thread and upgrade the older cars
with the subpar binders.  I think that is the point.  And one that you do
agree on.  Audis latest and greatest braking 'facts' really just drives that
point home to the rest of us.  Before it was just your RS2.

Scott Justusson