butchers and "consumer" vehicle: letting go '87 5kcstq (venting, very long, wrap up)

[Andrei Kogan <abk@phy.duke.edu>]

hello,

First, let me thank each and every one of you who contributed to the "audi
as a consumer vehicle" thread. I am tremendously impressed with the quality
of the information that  I got and greatly appreciate that all of you gave
me a truly objective prospective onto the issues involved with the type 44
body ownership. and, in particular, 5cstqs. It is really hard to be
objective about these cars. Now that I have driven one, I can say that I
probably would have had a really hard time being objective. Well, this gets
me into the venting part. 

My wife and I spent the last 3 days struggling with the temptation to
aquire a 1987  5kcstq from a small dealer's lot nearby. After all the
discussions, hesitation and a struggle between our reasonable side and the
*others* (sides that is) we decided to let it go. Here is why:

The guy will sell it for $3,000. It is a reasonably good deal. But the
damned dealer bought it from a local crysler dealership  where the original
owner traded the car in for a Jeep Cherokee (eek), and in the process, they
lost the owner's records ( both tell me there were tons of records, and I
tend to believe them, but I cannot have them). In the glove compartment I
found receipts for the steering rack seals renewal, and that's it. The
dealer even suggested to get in touch with the orig. owner, but that was
after I made a decision ( and it was a really hard one). Without the
records, I would be taking a risk of having to do within the next year or two
the bomb
the rack
the EM
the a/c ( they *beleive* it is just the clutch, but they don't know  a
damned 	thing about Audis, see the description of a really hard case  of
malicious ignorance below, and to 	me, it appeared that the clutch worked,
at least, it would always pop in 	and out. Of course, could be slipping...
still)  

the in-dash climate control internal shutters are making noise ,perhaps are
about to die?

the timing belt ( Ok, this I can handle myself)

the turbo 

(140,000 is enough miles to use it up, I am told, if you aren't 	careful.
Seems that the orig owner was a 100 % consumer user, did proper
maintenance, but did he treat the car with the	*attention* that it needs?
Don't know...

the clutch

In the above list, every item except the TB and the dash, is about a grand.
$3,000 + $5000 =...

Now, most likely, It won't be as bad. And its not that a car like this in a
 perfect shape isn't worth it. But I realised , while thinking about this
deal, one aspect that nobody pointed out to me (perhaps it's too trivial,
but..)  ---- unless you by a high tech car from somebody you know treated
it well, you are better off paying more immediately for a younger, lower
milage vehicle. Reason? Although you lose in depreciation, it buys the time
that *you* own it and  therefore care for it as *you* see appropriate.
Example -- if the 1st owner systematically doesn't let the turbo cool off
before shutting down the engine, it would probably still have a lot left at
50,000 , but by 150,000 it would probably be marginal. So, it seems to me
that 
unless one of you guys decides to sell a quattro, I should wait till I can
afford spending about $10K and buy a low-milage car with all records etc.
Does it make sense, anyone?

Another example of why people trading trucks should be kept away from Audis
--- the very first day I talked to the guy, he spent 20 minutes going over
all the wonderful options the car has. didn't forget to mention  the jack
for the earphones in the back. OK, it'c nice, but I don't care... But then
he points to the diff lock switch ( Now I know, but back then,
UNFORTUNATELY I didn't : this was the first time I was in a 4wd audi, so
forgive me for what follows ) :

Dealer : you see, this is a 4 wheel drive, like a jeep 

Me: well...

Dealer: you move this knob one turn, see the green light in the front? it's
a front wheel drive setting. You move it two turns, see the second light?
It is the 4 wheel drive setting. 
( are you people laughing already? don't, it is sad, not funny)

Me: Ok, but what does it do when the knob is upward and both lights are off?

Dealer: Oh, this is your normal driving regime --- this way, it is a rear
wheel drive. It is best for cruising this way --- 4wd is a little rough (
!!!) , but some people like it (?).

Well, guys. I should have picked up on the rear wheel drive thing. I
didn't.  after this conversation I ask him to set the car to 4wd and let me
go drive it. You see, as a non-quattro car owner, I have so far been
mostly skipping all the quattro-specific stuff on the list. I drive out of
his lot, and the back end sound a little funny, but it was on gravel, so I
didn't suspect the idiot right away.  But then I go into a really steep
turn and then I hear it loud and clear: the right side is dragging the tire
like crazy. Boy, I tell my wife, this thing is screwed up -- looks like the
diffs lock up once you set it to 4wd... Then I turned left to see if it is
still there and sure enough it is... And the  it struck me --- may be it IS
the diff lock? Stopped the car, it was dark already, pulled out the owners
manual... YES. The stupid ass didn't even bother to look through it. 

Anyway, I drove it maybe through 3-4 turns overall with the rear diff
locked on concrete. It probably didn't kill it. But WHO KNOWS how many
miles the dealer guy drove it like that ( remember the " a little rough" 4wd?)

All and all, I decided to pass on this car. Too much uncertainty. Hopefully
my trusty 4k keeps it up as numero uno  for a few more years. And I am
probably not buying anything until I can afford a low milage  100/200 turbo
sedan and maybe even a quattro. However, just in case that someone is
looking for a (potentially) a good shape quattro, here is what the 5kstq I
have been looking at is like:

1987 5kcstq
pearl white ( beautiful paint)
140,000 miles (137,000? don't remember exactly)

Good suspension/ breaks ( subjectively)

Engine smooth and quiet, no surges

turbo pressure tops at 1.4 bar

interior in good condition, definitely not mint but neat, some cracks on
driver's seat, 2 inches of thread on the steering wheel missing, shift knob
is showing wood in a few places

2 windows work erratically, I think it needs a new driver's door switch
panel and maybe one or two individual switches ( how much are those things,
anyone?)

Climate control: Fan works, but every time you hit econ, you hear a 2 sec
noise. I didn't try the heat ;), it being 98F in shade that day. 


Power antenna gets stuck half way

Trunk lock doesn't work and shows signs of what could be a break in attempt 

Paint: quite smooth overall, no major scratches. Trunk area is scratched a
little  

Needs at least one front cv boot ( not torn yet but close) not sure about
the rears

Ugly "detailing" job on the engine: somebody washed it  and then sprayed
silver paint from above. New fuel lines. 

No records except a few receipts and service stamps in the manual through
57,000 miles

If anybody is interested, contact me ASAP, I could get you the dealer's
phone. It was his first experience with an Audi ( no shit) and he says it
is the last one. He has had it for 2 weeks and unless I buy it for $3,000
he is going to take it to the dealer auction on Wednesday. He claimed he
paid $2900 for it , but it was after I offered him $3,000. 


Again, thank you for all your help. Oh, of course no interest on my side in
getting it sold *not to me* except the satisfaction  of seing this fine
classic find a good home.

Andrei