Re: 5KCSTQ:runnability problems ('89 200TQ similar)

[Todd Joseph <todd@ConnActivity.ConnActivity.com>]

I've got almost identical symptoms with my '89 200TQ.  Only notable
addition is that my speedo also shakes and trip computer spewing
useless data.  I am aware of the fix for this (solder on back of
instrument panel), but have not done it yet.  I'm told, right or
wrong, that the speedo shaking problem could have something to do with
the ISV functioning properly (power or signal?).

I have received a lot of good pointers on what to do from the list.
As of yet, I have not tried any of them (infant at home, and cold
outside with no garage in chilly Massachusetts).  

A brief summary:

(1) Check fuel injectors for leak-down (Clair supposedly did this).
(2) Check the plugs (new WD7C's installed last week)
(3) Clean ISV (Not done yet, Clair recommended a new ISV)

My car is definitely running rich.  I changed the plugs and saw spent
fuel deposits on them.  I also noticed fuel mixed with the oil.

I had been using the car to go 2-3 miles round trip to the train
station every day, and tolerating the idling-blues.  On Christmas eve,
I tried to start it on my way home at the Train Station -- no luck.
The car would actually kind of start.  As long as I kept the clutch in
it would run in a phenomenally low "idle" (RPMs registered as "0")
Hitting the gas did nothing to change the RPM.  Releasing the clutch
caused the car to stall completely.

I walked home 1-2 miles on a *very* cold night.  My wife got her digs
in for me having bought a car with 170K miles on it... :)

I had the car towed to Clair Audi a couple of days after Christmas.
Clair's investigation of the car said:

(1) My fuel injectors were OK. 
(2) They changed the oil, due to fuel being mixed in.
(3) They adjusted idle up a bit, and made mixture a tad richer.
(3) Car needs:
(3a) New O2 Sensor ($195 - PN:034906265F)
(3b) New ISV ($247.50 - PN:037906457C)
(3c) New Thermostat ($28 - PN:069121-113)
(3d) New ECM ($1,315 - PN:447905282L) 

I am skeptical of the ECM, but the rest seem believable (although I
hope to be able to clean the ISV out instead of buying a new one).  

I clearly lack the resolve to work on the car myself.  While the Clair
folks were very decent to me, I'm not confident that Clair is the
right place to have the car repaired.  I'm looking for a good
recommendation in the Boston area for a shop that can sure my '89
200TQ's idling blues.  Anyone have someplace they would recommend?

Todd
todd@connact.com
--------------
>Randall Paquette wrote:
>> 
>> Folks,
>> A bit of an update to my dreaded problem previously posted and described
>> below.
>> The temp sensor on top of the waterboss appears ok - reads about 60ohms when
>> warm.  The o2 sensor is generating around .5 volts and fluctuating when warm
>> and disconnected from the controller.  Duty cycles seem strange (I have neve
>r
>> checked before so have no baseline to compare to).  Car cold start - dudty
>> cycle about 50% and steady.  Engine warm at idle-fluctuating around 75%.
>> Throttle up to 2000rpm and duty cyce drops to 30% and when returned to idle
>> slowly creeps back to 75%.  Funny thing happens, though.  If I really give i
>t
>> some willy (4000rpm) and let up on the throttle, car may not return to idle
>> good at all (will then continuously stumble until restart with duty cycle
>> around 50%).  If I remove the sensor connector at the top of the water boss,
>> the car immediatley stalls, then in virtually impossible to restart (with
>> connector re-attached).  My initial guess is that I'm running rich, AND that
>> when the rpms go high enough, the car enters some further version of closed
>> loop control and some sensor is causing a prollem.  Hope this helps some of
>> you gurus with some ideas....  BTW, what size allen wrench do I need to
>> fabricate to adjust the fuel dist?
>> ----------------
>> I'm having a problem with my 86 5KCSTQ (168,000miles).  Its a rough idle,
>> stumbling problem that has progressivly gotten worse over the past few weeks
>.
>> I'll describe the symptomology, relate what I've done, and exporess my plans
>> if noone has any suggestions.
>> It starts hard.  Only starts easy if its been less than 10 minutes or longer
>> than 4 days.  In those circumstances, it fires right up.  Otherwise crancks
>> for 20 seconds or so.  Lately, though, the idle has started dropping,
>> requiring me to blip the throttle to keep from stalling - if stalled, have t
>o
>> pull off the road and it can take 10 minutes to pry it back to life.  It
>> sometimes idles ok, sometimes won't hold the idle.  Sometimes develops full
>> boost and sometimes stumbles.  It also seems to be running rich, smells rich
>> and during my recent examinations, has spewed gas out the tail pipe on the
>> driveway.
>> What I've done:  ran the diagnostics, no problems detected and all things th
>at
>> are supposed to run (valves, fuel pump, etc) do.  Used the dreaded propane
>> vacuum leak test - to no avail.  Idle stabilizer cleaned and tested.  Thrott
>le
>> idle/full throttle switch tested.  Recent new OXS installed.
>> What I'm planning on doing: Remove cat converter - if plugged, what can I us
>e
>> to coerce the inards to break up and fall out?  I'd like to adjust the
>> mixture.  I don't have a long enough 3mm tool to reach (any suggestions?) no
>r
>> do I have a duty cycle meter (have old dwell meter if that helps).
>> As I live over 100 miles from a dealership, any help would be greatly
>> appreciated!!!!!  Please reply direct to me as I'm still using temporart
>> e-mail accounts.  Thank you all.
>> Regards,
>> Randy Paquette
>> QPILOT@NETSCAPE.NET
>> 
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>Randall:
>I don't know if you have done this:
>Replace fuel filter
>Check fuel system volume NOT just pressure !!!
>Sounds like a "lean" condition....and lack of overall
>system pressure...suspect partially clogged strainer at fuel pump...
>Check Scott Mockry's web page for very good info
>