Re: wheels/tyres

[JustaxPHX@aol.com]

> are you saying that upsizing has got to be a win?  or simply that it can be
>  a win depending upon experience and the size of your pockets (and could
>  equally well be a loss)?

As with most decisions, automotive and otherwise, there are pros and cons to 
be considered ... very rarely can gains be had without a price having to be 
paid.  Most car manufacturers design their cars to satisfy the average of 
whatever demographic group the marketing department has targeted.  As such, 
many of the design choices they make are not intended to be the ne plus ultra 
but a compromise that will satisfy the greatest number of potential buyers.  
When I'm asked by people if I think I can really improve upon the factory's 
engineers when modifying my cars, the answer is an unqualified Yes ... after 
all, who better knows what I want -- and not necessarily what I "need" -- 
than yours truly? 
  
>  fwiw, i played around with my s2 and endeavoured to improve the turn-in by
>  going +1 (keeping the 16" wheels).

I thought the S2 came with 16" wheels from the factory?  If so, how did you 
go "+1" without changing them as well?

>  it helped to a point, but i lost other things in the deal, like 
(particulalry wet weather) traction/braking.  there
>  was no discernable improvement in handling either (placebo effect taken 
into
>  account).  little change in comfort due to the marginal increase in 
unsprung
>  weight.  i did however, like the looks...

Looks are important, no doubt, but the concept of "handling" is a lot like 
that of beauty ... something that's beautiful to me could be perceived as 
ugly by you and vice-versa.  Recall the recent issue of EVO where the editors 
asked various car designers to list the cars they thought handled well and 
the reasons why ... there wasn't very much overlap among them, as I recall.  
Judging from your comments over the past few years (and most recently, about 
the Torsen diff), you clearly place more of a premium on a car's turn-in 
performance than I do ... sure, it's nice, but I can also drive around a 
turn-in problem if the tradeoff is more grip at mid-corner or a better exit.  
Which, mind you, isn't meant to suggest that I find the 17" wheel/tire combos 
on either of my cars deficient in this regard.
 
>  given that there is no more tyre surface on the road, i can understand that
>  (depending upon the tyre used), the improvement of contact patch width
>  *might* improve turn-in, (but it could just as easily not due to loss of
>  centering).

In my experience, turn-in performance is much more of a suspension design 
issue than tire choice ... sure, a given tire might perform better than 
another in some respects but does that mean it's intrinsically better?  Or 
perhaps it's merely a better match for the car's basic suspension design 
and/or tuning?  For the life of me, I can't understand why Porsche (Porsche, 
for crying out loud!) decided that your RS2 should wear its 245/40-17s on a 
wimpy little 7x17 wheel but they must have had their reasons and I'll bet 
they were addressing something other than its outright performance...   

>  i wonder if the trade-offs (less contact patch length) are worth it.

For you, maybe not; for me, maybe so; for that guy standing over there in the 
corner next to the stunning redhead, who knows?

>  i also wonder if most people figure this out before the leap into
>  "upgraded" boots.

For "most people," the decision to go with a 17" or 18" (or 19" or even 20") 
wheel/tire setup is stricly for appearance, no matter what they might claim.  
The same is also true when it comes to lowering a car or deciding upon how 
large an exhaust pipe to fit or how many drivers the stereo system should 
have.  Big deal.

JG