Re: Sad reactions to first drive - experienced turbo drivers please help (very long)

[Avram Dorfman <dorfman@est.org>]

Thanks for you input...

For clarification:

No, I'm not expecting full power to be available at any time. Rather I'm
just expecting to be able to *predict* how much power I'm going to get at
any given time. From what you and many others have said, this is something
you learn to do after driving a turbo for a while. Second, I'm expecting
that *however much power I'm going to get*, that I get it immediately. Even
if it's only going to be 1/2 of max power, like a VTEC at only 4400 RPM. If
I go from idle to WOT at 4400, I'll only get 80 lb-ft or so of torque, but
I'll get it the instant the throttle's in position.

I completely agree that you have to learn *any* engine's power
characteristics. I modulate the del sol's throttle all the time even in
full out acceleration, to smooth out the power application. It's just that
the amount of power I'm going to get is related only to thinks I can
determine & measure myself (throt. pos., RPM, gear). In the turbo, there's
this other element - exhaust pressure. I can't measure it (couldn't hear
the turbo in the S4, and I can't control it directly - it's related to
throt. pos., but indirectly b/c it takes time to build up.

As for low RPM lack of boost, I wasn't complaining about this - I mentioned
it only to distinguish it from lift-throttle-lag.  Low RPM lack of boost
seems to be the only thing people talk about. Audi touts the S4's max
torque at 1800 RPM partly as an attempt to make you *think* it doesn't have
any lag, but it's actually misleading because the real lag is the above
issue.

Anyway, at this point, my conclusion is that it's time for me to learn a
new skill. I'll go w/ the S4 & see how good I can get at it. If I'm still
not happy with it, then I'll start looking for ways to make a PES
supercharge quiet 8-)

Thanks,
Avram
--On Wed, Sep 22, 1999 8:42 AM -0400 Josh Pinkert <flusher@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> I'm also posting this to A4.org (http://www.a4.org/forum/m/s4/3434.phtml) 
> in response to one of your messages...
> 
> I think you're expecting too much here.  In my opinion, you're asking for 
> full power to be available instantly at any time.  And I don't think you 
> get that with any car.  You, the driver, have to make adjustments to the 
> dynamics of your engine.
> 
> Take, for instance, your Honda Del Sol.  You have to be aware of the VTEC 
> change-over point.  If not, you're going to get a surprising surge in
> power  around 5500 rpm (at least that's the way the Integra GS-R is).  So
> you, as  a driver, need to be aware of this characteristic.
> 
> Turbo cars:  You have two complaints/problems.  I'll address the second
> one  first.  There is a short lag between when you apply the accelerator
> and the  desired amount of power is reached.  What you really need to do
> is become  familiar with that characteristic and how it applys to your
> car.  You say  you press the gas until you get the power you want...and
> then you have to  back off, etc etc.  And you have this constant need for
> adjustment.  What  if you had a better sense of how much power you'd
> ultimately get for any  given amount of gas for any given gear?  Well,
> then you'd push the pedal  down the amount you *knew* you wanted and
> power is there 1/2 second  later.  There still may be lag, but
> familiarity with the car spell  predictability.  You don't roll the dice
> every time you give it gas...the  car is just a machine.  It is
> predictable...
> 
> Now the first problem...lack of power at lower rpms (I'm assuming you
> mean  below 2000 rpm).  What cars have you driven that are really strong
> below  2000 rpms?  I don't know of many.  Mostly large displacement 
> cars.  Certainly the VTEC motors don't have much power below 2000 
> rpms.  And if your ultimate goal is the quickest launch, with most cars, 
> you wouldn't be slipping the clutch below 2000 rpms.  If you're talking 
> about around town driving, I can't really provide a concrete answer
> (never  driven the S4), but I would assume that the car is drivable below
> 2000  rpms...just like a VTEC car is.
> 
> Hope all this helps.
> --
> Josh Pinkert
> Josh@Pinkert.com
> '98 A4q 2.8
> '72 911T
> --