RE: redux: the torsen in audi rallying

["Dave Eaton" <Dave.Eaton@clear.net.nz>]

isn't memory a fine thing... wasn't it you scott who has so assertively
stated that the torsen was *never* used by audi in rally'ing (see archives)?
and also that it was *never* used in the a4 super touring ('rce' article
stating the contrary excepted of course)...

in summary, we appear to have the s1 winning with a torsen on tarmac with
walter rohrl at the helm (san remo), and hannu mikkola twice running with a
torsen in the s1. so clearly the torsen was viewed to be a suitable device
for audi's top-level motorsport aspirations.

i note your documentation of the success of the s1 against the peugeot 205's
and other mid-engined group 'b' cars of the era.  the implication is
obvious.

perhaps, to complete the picture, you would like to include the stats
against the same cars of the sport quattro (with centre locker)?

thanks to hans-juergen and jouko for more documentation/personal interviews
on this topic.

dave
'95 rs2
'90 ur-q
'88 mb 2.3-16

-----Original Message-----

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:25:21 EDT
From: QSHIPQ@aol.com
Subject: RE:  More on S1

Jouko writes:
>I've asked the tor*en question form Hannu, and he ran the S1 with it.  He
>also mentioned Walter not being real happy with it, especially on loose
>surfaces.  I seem to recall Hannu saying that he ran two rallys with the
>tor*en centre, and Walter ran one.  I wonder what center diff Hannu's newly
>acquired S1 from Sutton has?  :^)

Jouko, according to my documentation, Mikkola *could have run* torsens in
both the  two WCR competitions he ran the S1.  The question to ask though,
is, did he ever run an S1 without it.  Cuz if he did, he couldn't have run 2
with.  (I might also raise the point, that a DNF is a DNF, regardless of
equipment)  According to WCR rally results, Mikkola only ran the S1 at 1000
Lakes in Aug 1985 (DNF -loss of oil) and Monte Carlo in Jan 1986 (3rd).  At
RAC Nov 1985 he ran a sport quattro, not an S1 (DNF - electrics)

>If rumors turn out to be true, I'll be seeing him soon at an Audi-esque
>event at a track soon - I'll feel dumb but I'll pop the Tor*en questions at
>him again.  The cars are A4 supertouring cars with diffs (heh), but
>interestingly enough, last year sometime, pushing one out of the shop the
>first time with the rear up in the air, I could not help but notice that
the
>diff gear ratio is longer in the rear (numerically higher) by some visible
>margin...Jouko Haapanen

Interesting, the documentation on the A4's is pretty well documented.  VC
center diff of either 40-60, 35-65 or 45-55, 35/65 the least used, 40/60 the
most. VC front and rear remained untouched bias ratio throughout the season

I'm really interested in Mikkolas thoughts on the torsen, given my interview
with Stig.  I certainly think we might be closer to the actual truth be
known
here, though.

History since groupe B is well documented however, locked diffs ruled all
Audi rally private entries since 1987.  Whatever the politics/bonus/spin the
AS boys did on the S1.  Bottom line:  The S1 only ran in 4 rallyes with 2
cars, Mikkola and Rohrl.  Out of those 4 = 1 win, 2 DNF's and a 2nd/3rd
(Monte Carlo 1986 Mikkola/Rohrl respectively behind Lancia-1 and Peugeot-2).
One can easily argue Peugeot (205T16 = 12/16 rallyes won, vs audis 2/17
combining SQ = 1 win and S1=1win) dominated WCR since it's debut in 1985,
competing with either the sport and/or the S1, regardless of center diff
used.  Even buying the best of the best drivers, audi lost domination with
the introduction of the 205 and the Lancia awd B's.