apologies to the list for the latest round. i responded to a question on the main list, which scott then flamed. i responded to that. i shouldn't have done that (can't stand bullies i guess). anyway, it's now all quiet from me. got a nice bite in the mb last night - it seems that the car has a lsd ;-) dave '95 rs2 '90 ur-q '89 mb 2.3-16