Re: Type 44 Single Pass Intercoolers in US? KH/MC questions

[Scott Mockry <scottmo@teleport.com>]

Sachelle, Todd and others

>From: Sachelle Babbar <sbabbar@iris.nyit.edu>
>There may have been some crossovers that I've accepted. Just like how some
>cars go dual oil filters when they weren't specced for them. The kh, as
>far as listings go is oilcooled only. I have no problems accepting that
>some may have been made as the mc configuration, with regard to the turbo.
>The mc gen 1, as i call it was the replacement engine in late 85 made for
>the 5000 s Turbo. Predates the 86 version. It's configuration is that of
>the kh, 2,144 cc and 8.3-1 compression.

It seems from your description, (correct me if I mis-understand what you
are saying here), is that you are calling this 1985 engine, 2.1 liter
"with" the water cooled turbo, a MC engine, first generation "only" because
it uses a water cooled turbo?

I have seen several 1985 5000S Turbo vehicles with 1985 production dates
with the water cooled turbo and after-run pump etc. that have "KH" stamped
on the engine block and use the Mac-07 ECU with single knock sensor, waste
gate solenoid control etc. 

How can this engine be considered a MC? Just because it has a water cooled
turbo? or am I missing some other evidence you have to support this theory.

The Audi Service Training Publication WSP-521-125-00 "1985 Model Change
Information" which has a 11/84 publication date describes the 1985 5000T
engine as follows, and I quote:

"The 5000S Turbo engine now features a water cooled turbocharger. A
secondary coolant pump is also used to circulate coolant when the engine is
shut off and coolant temperature is above 110 C.  The new turbocharger
housing has an internal water jacket cast around the area of the exhaust
turbine. Engine coolant flows at an average rate of about 6 litres (6.3
qts) a minute during engine operation.

Specifications:
Output 140 hp at 5500 RPM
Torque 149 ft/lbs at 2500 RPM
Fuel system CIS
Ignition system: Digital with knock sensor with input and waste gate control
Compression ratio, 8:3 to 1

End quote.

Have you run across an engine which has MC stamped on the block, but which
you found had 79.5mm pistons installed?

I have also seen very early 1986 "Model" 5000T/Q with 1985 production
dates, (i.e. August 1985) which have the "MC" engine (stamped on the block)
and which use either the Mac-10 or Mac11 ECU

The US Parts fiche (dated 2/1988) for the 1984-88 5000 Turbo shows:

The KH engine used in 1984 Model year 
with the following production dates and engine serial numbers:

1/84 KH 001 604
to 
7/84 KH 007 385

Then for the 1985 Model year

8/84 KH 007 386
to 
6/85 KH 018 319 
(no engine production is shown for the KH engine in July/85)

The 1986 5000T "Model" year shows

The MC engine production dates and serial numbers start in
8/85 MC 000 997
7/86 MC 016 384

Other fiches for the 1986-88 Model year 5000T/Q shows production of the
MC-1 engine from
 8/85 to 4/88 

The ETKA European CD and US Parts fiche:

Lists  only "1" Piston for the "MC" engine, (assuming 1985-88 "production"
dates) and this is a 81.00mm diameter piston, which was used when the bore
was increased from 79.5 to 81mm to increase the displacement from 2.1 litre
to 2.22 liters. 

If none of the parts fiche shows a 2.1 litre MC engine, How can their be one? 

The other question is: why would their be one, given the KH 2.1 litre
engine already existed with the water cooled turbo? 

I realize the correlation between build dates, and the actual parts
installed on the cars that get shipped out the door can vary a bit, but why
build a 2.1 litre MC engine, and stamp the engine block with MC, when you
already have the 2.1 litre KH?

I have you seen you refer to this 2.1 litre MC-1 engine before, but I have
never found any evidence that this thing exists as you describe. Please
help me understand this.

Thanks
Scott