Re: 87 5ktq no start questions

[Iain Mannix <mannix@privatei.com>]

An addendum - the post in front of the airbox(for jumpstarting, etc) does 
_not_ have 12v; I don't know why that'd keep the car from running, 
but it seems relavent.....


I.Mannix

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999, Iain Mannix wrote:

> Hi all - I have an 87 5k turbo quattro that is behaving a little
> strangely.  When stone cold, it will often start, idle at 1200rpm or
> so - for about 3-5 minutes.  Then it quits and will not restart again
> for 2-4 hours.
> 
> When it quits, it has no spark at the plugs, wires or coil wire.  It
> *seems* as though there is a temperature related loss of spark - the
> car does not even reach operating temperature, it is not getting that
> hot(barely warm).  
> 
> I have replaced:
> 
> cap/rotor
> plugs(Bosch triple electrode)
> wires(OEM)
> 
> I have tested:
> 
> Ditributor - hall sender seems to be working on both distributors I
> have to work with; both act in a similar fashion.
> 
> The coil is getting 12v with the key on.
> 
> The transistor driver module checks out OK according to the SJM
> page(.622v when the car is cranking); "minimum" is 0.2v.
> 
> The ignition switch test - looking for 12v between pin 35 and 18
> passes; 11.9v.  Also shows 11.9 beteen 35 and 9.
> 
> The timing belt is good; maybe a touch loose, but looks good/intact
> teeth.  It is lined up correctly - motor at TDC #1, cam mark is in the
> correct place, rotor is pointed at mark on distributor.
>   
> All grounds seem solid.
> 
> The connectors down on the bellhousing are good.
> 
> It has gas - a full tank.
> 
> Fuel pump relay is good; using a known "test" relay loaned to me by a
> local shop.  Both FPRs "work," in that both will run the car for five
> minutes every 6 hours;).
> 
> Loosening the connection on the outlet side of the fuel filter shows
> that there is gas getting out of the filter.
> 
> Now, the "hmmm" things:
> 
> The car has been sitting for about a year.  Over that time, it had no
> radiator - was in light front end collision.  As far as I can tell, there
> are no broken wires - I took the old fenders off, put new ones on,
> found all broken wires that I could - I do not believe it is a
> broken/shorting wire.
> 
> There is occasionally an "old gas" smell.  I put a can of Techron into
> it yesterday, as well as a gallon of fuel - last week,
> a friend was driving it
> back from the body shop for me(100 yards), it "ran out of gas."  He
> put gas into it, up to 5 gallons, as he left the gas can(5g) in the
> car, there was a little left - he probably put 2-4 into it.  I put 6
> in it today, which filled it.  Probably half the gas in it is old.
> However, over the past year, the car car has ben running here and
> there, has not shown any odd tendencies.  I wanted to eliminate the
> possibility of "no gas," and it has at least 8 gallons of fresh 91
> octane.
> 
> There is a hard plastic vacuum line which connects to a vacuum switch
> of sorts(check valve?) near the ABS sensor(line runs to the
> wastegate - from wastegate, it goes rubber to check valve, which has
> one rubber line, one hard plastic) - the hard plastic goes up, along
> the raintray from the driver - passenger side, then makes a 90d turn
> down at the coil - where it ends.  Nothing obvious for it to connect
> to.  Does not seem to be creating a vacuum leak when it is cranking;
> cannot hear a v-leak of that size while it is running.  It has run
> like that for a while; I do not believe anyone took anything off the
> car.
> 
> Engine code - followed the procedure on SJM's page, get 2113 - 
> 
> "Hall sender in distributor, distributor alignment, faulty
> sender(which one?), mislocated sensor & distributor."
> 
> It is acting as though the computer is retarding the timing as it
> warms up - the inevitable cutout can be avoided by adding
> gas/depressing the accelerator, but engine speed does not increase
> appreciably.  Advancing the timing does not get the car to
> restart(turning dist. counter-clockwise).  
> 
> After it has run, there is a hissing noise coming from the distributor
> - fuel going somewhere - and a similar noise can be heard on the
> p-side near the rear wheel; bleeding pressure into the tank?
> 
> I'm stumped.  Two distributors, both seem good, both do the same
> thing.  Two coils; original should be good, spare is of unknown
> origin, but both do the same thing.  Wiring seems good.  No apparent
> vacuum leak(blocking plastic hose does not affect things).  Firing
> order is correct.  Tried two rotors.  Has appropriate voltage
> everywhere SJM's page suggests checking.
> 
> Only constant - when it starts, it sounds _great_, for 2 minutes.
> Then it starts to die.  Add throttle, it will run at 1500-2000rppm for
> a few more minutes, then it dies and will not restart.  
> 
> I've moved the distributor back and forth - no luck.  I am pointing
> the rotor at the mark; not aliging the leading or trailing edge of the
> rotor with the mark.  
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Iain Mannix(I bought my 4ksq almost 3 years ago, it did the same thing
> - threw a big fit for the first week, has run great since.....)
>