[urq] True Short Shifter 016 Challenge
qshipq at aol.com
Mon Sep 12 08:37:14 PDT 2011
Well, it's been some time since I spent too many hours on this, but I can assure you one thing Tony, it's not "simple". What many don't realize is the 016 shifter throw at the trans is not 'single plane', it's a multiplane-arc lever design (that's what the lat-link does) which makes the project more complicated. I'm not at all convinced that 'externally' you can make a tight "H" to an 016 without modifying the internals to the transmission and/or making a rod multiplier lever to the shift rod mounting point.
To the heim joint issue, I see no real application/duty cycle problems with using heim joints on transmission linkages, as the 'load' on them is a fraction of their rated capacity. 100k is quite possible even with brass bearings in heim joints Bufkin used, and IME, the assembly at the trans tends to get a lot of incidental 'lube' from leaking Audis. The real issue with heim joints on a transmission linkage is the NVH to the shifter and tunnel assembly - transferred inside the cabin.
The Bufkin Engineering copies of the Audisport design in the links below were reversed engineered copies of the Kluge built A2 016 5speed in the rally car Bufkin bought from Bruno Kriebec. Bufkin did a nice job of reproducing/improving the linkage, and several urq owners bought some of the ones he had made. The only problem I see with it, is that the gear selector shaft pinch bolt arrangement is not the same as a stock 016 gear selector shaft end. I suspect Kluge designed a better selector shaft (read no set screw ala stock 016 transmissions) to eliminate the shear forces of the set screw in competition. The SMS 6 speed used the same cockpit linkage, but the trans portion is different. If you look on 034 website, the same cockpit assembly is used 012>016>01E, but do note it is only short 'throw' not tight 'H'
I applaud the mental exercises this discussion might have spawned. That said, I propose an actual design fitted to the 016 that accomplishes the task might prove a bit more challenging. I know it was for me with a Audi master tech and a mocked-up 016 transmission tunnel, and I too just accepted that short throw on a truck transmission is not a bad compromise. That part was quite simple.
HTH and my .02
Shorted on short shift/close "H" 016
016 transmissions aplenty...
From: Tony Hoffman <auditony at gmail.com>
To: Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com>
Cc: cody <cody at 5000tq.com>; theringmeister <theringmeister at triad.rr.com>; quattro <quattro at audifans.com>; urq <urq at audifans.com>; martin <martin at quattro.ca>; suffolkd <suffolkd at aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [urq] True Short Shifter 016 Challenge
In my simplistic way of thinking, you could shorten the side to side throws by simply bending/extending the shift arm upward slightly. If that does not give the desired effect, you can also raise the mounting point of the small ball and socket location of the trans, and bend the arm upward more.
However, with this caveat: #1, this would increase the effort side to side. #2, it's not IMO really the right way to fix the "issue". The right way would be to change the lever arm length/setup inside the transmission. I don't know just how hard this would be, though. I've been into quite a # of 016's, but never really thought about this sort of modification.
BTW, I'm not a big fan of heim joints on street cars, just my .02. Never really thought of them as a street car application, lack of element protection and whatnot. If I modify something, I try to think of how Audi would have done it, and perhaps improve upon the original dexign. And, I mix that with the thought of "will it go at least 100k miles" as well.
That said, the setup in the second set of pics is a pretty nice looking piece of work. I take nothing from whoever designed and machined that, it appears to be quite stout.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Scott Justusson <qshipq at aol.com> wrote:
Detailed pix of the linkage Audisport did for the 016 (not S1, but A1/A2 design) can be found here:
The geometry is identical, save the 'typical' rise in the shifter mounting point, which reduces throw. Taking out slop by 'heim jointing' can reduce the feel and 'incidentally' some of the travel in the "H" but that's not it's primary function nor design. IME, it makes for a really notchy 016 shifter feel, but the thought of "short" shifter isn't the primary thought that comes to mind.
More information about the quattro