boost problem solved (I think)

Sun Jun 23 20:11:32 EDT 2002

I'll agree on that.
My confusion was because I made a bad assumption that when someone refered
to the dist being 180 off, they meant from the mark on the housing not the
whole assembly from some arbitrary position.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
To: "Michael Sylvester" <mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: boost problem solved (I think)

> Mike,
>
> I was relating to Dan's specific circumstance.  He had rotated the entire
> distributor, housing and rotor 180 degrees at which point he was able to
run
> the engine, as you agree is possible, below.
>
> > From: "Michael Sylvester" <mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net>
> > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:51:09 -0400
> > To: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > Subject: Re: boost problem solved (I think)
> >
> > Actually, it is true Bernie.
> >
> > When I say 180 off, I mean the rotor is pointing opposite from the mark
on
> > the dist housing and this will not run.  If he has the entire assembly
> > inserted 180 then that will run, but who cares as long as you can route
the
> > plug wires.
> >
> > As far as the shutter window goes, the ignition only uses it at startup
to
> > determine the stroke after which the crank position and engine speed
sensors
> > are used, except in the case of a CPS failure while running.  Then it
falls
> > back to the hall sensor.
> >
> > It is probably hard to do on a 20v but while the car is running, turn
the
> > dist or even unplug the hall connector from the dist and see that the
engine
> > still runs.
> >
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> > To: "Michael Sylvester" <mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net>
> > Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 10:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: boost problem solved (I think)
> >
> >
> >> Not true Mike,
> >>
> >> If the engine is 360d off and the dist is 180d off all is OK,
relatively,
> >> except dist wiring is a stressed PIA.
> >>
> >> And he need not ref the cam pulley mark, inasmuch as he is either at
comp
> >> TDC or at ex TDC.  His dist position necessary for running shows that
he
> > was
> >> at ex TDC.  The situation has been quantified!
> >>
> >>> From: "Michael Sylvester" <mike.sylvester at worldnet.att.net>
> >>> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 09:09:05 -0400
> >>> To: "Dan Simoes" <dans at audifans.com>
> >>> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: boost problem solved (I think)
> >>>
> >>> Dan,
> >>>
> >>> The engine will not run if the dist. were 180 deg off.
> >>> For the car to start, the timing reference pin on the flywheel must
> > align
> >>> with the sensor at the same time the hole in the shutter wheel lines
up
> > with
> >>> the hall sensor.  If you are 180 off, this will never happen.  There
is
> > only
> >>> a few degrees of margin with this adjustment.
> >>>
> >>> FYI the stroke can not be determined by the flywheel/crank.  Now that
> > the
> >>> dist has been removed you must use the mark on the cam shaft gear.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Dan Simoes" <dans at audifans.com>
> >>> To: "Bernie Benz" <b.m.benz at prodigy.net>
> >>> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 7:35 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: boost problem solved (I think)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> After putting the TDC mark on the flywheel at the window pointer,
did
> >>> you
> >>>>> verify tha it was TDC compression stroke, and not TDC exhaust
stroke,
> > by
> >>>>> looking at the rotor?
> >>>>
> >>>> No, I actually already had the dist off at that point I think.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you think I should remove the distributor, get the 0 back in the
> >>>> window, and reinstall the distributor 180 degrees off where I am now?
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sounds like the engine was at TDC
> >>>>> exhaust when you removed the old one and you then reinstalled as if
it
> >>> were
> >>>>> at TDC compression.
> >>>>
> >>>> How do you know where in the stroke it is?  I had a straw in the #1
> >>>> cylinder to see when it was going up/down.
> >>>>
> >>>>> If correct, the rotor should be pointing forward and
> >>>>> the Hall sensor should be at about 2 oclock.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you say forward, what direction is that?  Like 9 oclock?
> >>>> Knowing that the Hall sensor is supposed to be at 2oclock is helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>> It would probably be simplest to just note the current rotor
position,
> >>>> remove the distributor, and reinstall 180 degrees from where I am
now,
> >>>> and fine tune by rotating the dist until it starts, I guess?
> >>>>> Bernie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Dan Simoes <dans at audifans.com>
> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:01:03 -0400
> >>>>>> To: 200 20v <200q20v at audifans.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: boost problem solved (I think)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> OK, here's the cliff notes as it's late.
> >>>>>> I set out to tackle replacing the distributor, saving myself a
2.5hr
> >>>>>> round trip to my local Audi specialist.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I set the engine at TDC, indicated by the 0 in the (tiny) window
> > above
> >>>>>> the transmission.  I did this by having the car on a slight
downhill,
> >>> in
> >>>>>> 5th gear, and a helper on/off the brake as I literally hovered over
> >>> the
> >>>>>> hood trying to see in.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Once at 0, I removed the distributor by first chiseling off the
> >>>>>> protective cover and bolt, removed the 13mm nut and "yoke" holding
> > the
> >>>>>> dist on.  I then verified that the gear was only slightly worn, but
> >>> the
> >>>>>> dist had considerable play in it, compared to new.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I lined up the rotor, hash mark on the round piece below it, and
the
> >>>>>> hash on the body of the distributor, and inserted it with the hall
> >>>>>> sensor connection at about 2oclock, as you look at the dist from
the
> >>>>>> drivers side.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The car would not start.  Verified wire connections, etc as you
know
> >>>>>> (thanks to Brett, Paul Royal and Peter S. for calling in with
> >>>>>> advice/comparisions).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Had dinner, came back out with a mag lite to try to loosen the 13mm
> >>> nut
> >>>>>> enough to rotate the dist.  Succeeded after some time (coming in
from
> >>>>>> the firewall this time, cap and wires still on!) and rotated the
dist
> >>>>>> counterclockwise as my brother in law cranked the engine.  nothing.
> > I
> >>>>>> was hitting the manifold, so I went back the other way.  At some
> >>> point,
> >>>>>> vroom.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The hall sensor is now at around 7 or 8 oclock, but the car starts.
> >>>>>> I went for a quick test drive and it held boost in 3rd and 4th
gears
> >>>>>> uphill, which before it did not (digital gauge showing 1.7, analog
> >>>>>> around 13psi).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure what all this means.  Could it be that the engine was
> >>>>>> already 180 degrees off, and my rotation just compensated for this?
> >>> Or,
> >>>>>> am I the one who is off?  I'm not sure if I should leave it like
this
> >>> or
> >>>>>> have it checked out, you tell me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I didn't even tighten the nut yet, but will do so tomorrow.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
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>
>