Instrument Cluster/Alternator/Battery Charging Question

Wed Jun 4 07:13:59 PDT 2008

I was under the impression that regardless of excitation current any
normal alternator is self exciting when the rpm is over 2500, the
alternator in my boat is like this, there is no exciter wire, you just
gun it up to 3000rpm and it starts working.  i don't know about
ultranators though......i also question the need for this, I assume doug
has a monster audio setup or lives in the arctic and is jacking every
heater and fan in the car continually.  There are 120amp alternators
available, my tdi has one....had one now it has a 90amp thanks to a
breakdown on the road and no 120amp available....anyway I hope your
"ultranator" did not die in another tragic case of auto erotic self
excitation.......probably just the voltage regulator....sometimes you
can buy just the regulator, or grab one off a spare......me, I always
travel with a spare alternator now, in my cars and my boat after getting
stranded over something simple like an alternator.

David Schaible
JRS Pharma LP
2981 Rt. 22
Patterson, NY 12563
845.878.8343

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Benz [mailto:b.benz at charter.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:25 PM
To: alancordeiro at att.net
Cc: 200q20V mailing list
Subject: Re: Instrument Cluster/Alternator/Battery Charging Question

Alan,
The R that he was measuring, Bentley excitation step 2, is the  
resistance external of the alternator, that thru which  the  
excitation current is supplied. Comprised of lamps, diodes and wiring.

Maybe the problem is using anything called an "Ultranator".

Bernie

On Jun 3, 2008, at 2:59 PM, <alancordeiro at att.net> wrote:

> Doug,
>
> The difference you have is the lower resistance of the Ultranator,  
> to provide its larger output it has probably been rewound with a  
> different field coil, hence the lower resistance.
>
> The problem I see is that you have lower current than expected  
> current, did you at any time replace the 2 watt lamp in the battery  
> charging position with a 1.2W?
>
> In any case, Bernie is probably right, the current should be  
> sufficient to bootstrap up the alternator into generating power. It  
> may be a defective 3 phase bridge rectifier, since the voltage  
> regulator seems to be allowing the field to switch on.
>
> To confirm if it is indeed poor excitation current, add in a new  
> circuit, a wire from the battery, through a higher wattage lamp  
> ( 15 watts turn signal lamp) and see if this powers up the  
> alternator...if the lamp glows but the alternator does not fire up,  
> its the rectifier.
>
> Alan
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernie Benz" <b.benz at charter.net>
> To: "db cornett" <dbcornett at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "200q20V mailing list" <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Instrument Cluster/Alternator/Battery Charging Question
>
>
> Says that you should have more than enough exciter current. Problem
> not in the instrument cluster.
> When you remove the regulator check for continuity between the two
> rotor slip rings. If some reasonable resistance, you are homing in on
> a bad reg.
>
> Bernie
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2008, at 9:55 AM, db cornett wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>      I've completed the second portion of the exciter test
>> (resistance).  I have a 62.3 ohm value.  Bentley says 140-160 ohm
>> is desired.  What does this mean with a lower value?  I'll look at
>> the brushes and comutator next.
>>
>> Thanks, Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> Bernie Benz <b.benz at charter.net> wrote:
>> FME, not likely the circuit board. Do your Alt and hand brake warning
>> indicator lights in the IC work properly? Have you done the second
>> part of the exciter test, measuring the resistance of the external
>> exciter circuit? This resistance is the combination of these two
>> lamps and their in circuit diodes. If a lamp is burned out you won't
>> have sufficient exciter current. If R is infinite likely a bad blue
>> wire from the IC. Have you checked the regulator's brushes?
>>
>> Bernie
>>
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:01 AM, db cornett wrote:
>>
>> > I've done the diagnostic from the Bentley book on why my battery is
>> > not being charged (exciter test-120mA result, needs 150-185 mA).
>> > It points to the "circuit board" in the instrument cluster as
>> > needing replacement. Has anyone done the "circuit board"
>> > replacement successfully and which board is the correct one?
>> >
>> > As background - new battery, clean terminals, new "Blue Wire of
>> > Death" connection to Ultranator, cleaned BWoD connector on
>> > passanger frame rail, cleaned and tightened chassis grounds. Am I
>> > missing something?
>> >
>> > TIA, Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 200q20v-request at audifans.com wrote:
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>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Instrument Cluster Resolder (Phil Rose)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

>> -
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:31:17 -0400
>> > From: Phil Rose
>> >
>> > Subject: Instrument Cluster Resolder
>> > To: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v at audifans.com>
>> > Message-ID:
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>> >
>> > Can't have too many clamps (old woodworker's adage) or too many DIY
>> > postings for '91 200q procedures. Today, one of our listers
>> requested
>> > specific info pertaining to the solution I used to cure my  
>> "bouncing
>> > speedometer" problem. I sent him a couple of annotated JPEGS, which
>> > I have also added to my previously posted web listing for images on
>> > this topic. The new image files are called "photo_1_solder_fix.jpg"
>> > and "photo_2_reassembled_IC.jpg" and can be found here:
>> >
>> > http://phil-rose.com/miscellaneous/IC_repair_photos
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Here are a couple of jpegs with comments describing what worked  
>> for
>> >> me. I had _two_ issues (1) the IC lighting effects and 2) also a
>> >> bouncing speedo), and I hoped that a single fix (the jumper) would
>> >> cure both. Not for me.
>> >>
>> >> I did the jumper wire and that cured the issue with dim
>> >> illumination, (bi)directional turn signal arrows and erroneous
>> >> hi-beam indicator, but the bouncing speedo needle persisted  
>> until I
>> >> noticed that there was a problem getting the ground fed to one of
>> >> the little pins coming through the circuit board near where the
>> >> ground-trace break occurs. This was an almost invisible break in
>> the
>> >> solder joint at the base of the connector --the side connected to
>> >> the ground trace. I just touched this up with my low-wattage
>> >> soldering iron and the bouncing speed was cured. Two years and
>> still
>> >> works fine.
>> >
>> >
>> > Phil Rose
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Phil Rose
>> > Rochester, NY
>> > mailto:pjrose at frontiernet.net
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
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>> >
>> > End of 200q20v Digest, Vol 55, Issue 15
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