track pads for the 200

Thu Dec 2 10:36:59 PST 2010

My observation of HDs spans multiple vehicles and more than 10 years time.
I've been fairly verbose about it in the past.  I seem to definitely be in
the minority though as it seems more people are satisfied with their HDs.  I
held on for quite awhile and it was only after I had my Avant with well worn
HDs that felt the same way that I realized it I wasn't crazy.  In my opinion
and my usage (stock springs/wheels/tires), HDs do yield a harsh ride and
that characteristic does not diminish over time.

I realize the suspension system is more than just the dampers.  I did feel
an improvement with stiffer springs and/or lower profile tires (less
compliance due to the tire).  It was not enough for me though.  At one point
I had tires on the V8 that were one size larger than stock (225/50-15) and
those combined with the HDs was almost comical.  

I guess my only point here is to throw in my 2 cents worth when Bilstien HDs
come up in the context of being preferred over anything else.  In this case,
I prefer Konis hands-down to HDs.  

For context, I don't typically use anything more than 16-inch tires/wheels
and only have stock springs on all my cars.  I don't regularly track any of
my cars, though I do thoroughly enjoy spirited driving on a good mountain
road or well-engineered interstate on/off ramp.  I have had a wonderful time
on the track with an entirely stock 91 Avant and a chipped 89 200q with
stock springs and Boge TurboGas.  I find as much enjoyment in "managing"
those vehicles as efficiently and smoothly as possible on the track as
others find in lap times.  That's just me.  One way of looking at it is it
allows me to do the 9/10's driving that I can't get away with in my daily
driver on the street.

I have a "lap time" friend who had his modified 944 turbo (951) on the track
at Pueblo where I was running around in my 89 200q.  He commented later that
he was surprised and had thought he could catch me much more easily than he
was.  He also checked my door handles for road rash.  All very subjective
but plenty enough fun for me.  And my ride home was more comfortable than
his.

A side note to this discussion would be ride height.  ALL gas-charged shocks
that I have had on ANY vehicle have caused the ride height to be increased.
It's not a lot and maybe not very noticeable to some, but it does occur and
it bugged me.  It is often the case that a car's front shocks will be
replaced with Boge TG (or some such) and the rear shocks are left stock.
This changes the stance of the car and again, that bugs me.  When I replaced
the rear HD's with stock used shocks in the Avant, it sat nose high as
compared to before.  when I put in stock hydraulic replacement shocks in
front, the normal OE stance was restored.  I have a 94 V8 with Boge TG in
the front and beside the 93 in the driveway there's no mistaking the
difference in stance.

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: PeterBergin at aol.com [mailto:PeterBergin at aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 10:54 AM
To: ekellock at gmail.com; centaurus3200 at yahoo.com; 200q20v at audifans.com
Subject: Re: track pads for the 200

Yeah, mine are stiff on small payment cracks, I also have 17 inch 2000 S6
wheels with stiff sport tires and run Haka, RSI on 15 inch rime in the
winter, still stiff.  I do like them.  On my old 5000 Avant I had KYB front
and adjustable Koni (red's) in the medium position in the rear with standard
wheels.  Ride was a bit more forgiving.  KYB's were good for about 100k, the
Koni's had over 200k and still worked when I sold the car.
Pete

PS, I would make sure your suspension bushings front and rear are good.

In a message dated 12/2/2010 11:42:17 A.M. Central Standard Time,
ekellock at gmail.com writes:

I've given Bilstien HDs an extremely fair opportunity to satisfy and they
failed miserably.  They start out hard and never soften up.  The damping of
large motions is very good, but they have surpisingly little compliance for
minor irregularities.

Does anyone remember the old machines that people used to lost weight?  The
ones with the belt that went around a person's middle and just jiggled the
fat off (supposedly)?  Well, having HDs on a car is like that... it's like
driving around with one of those jiggle belt machines attached to you.
Jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle, jiggle,
jiggle.

I've had HDs in three cars over the years, brand new ones in a V8 5spd, very
well used in a 91 Avant, and new in a 83 GTI.  The suspension control of
large motions was great and stayed consistent with age, buy they never lost
the jiggle factor.   

With the GTI I ended up with stock dampers from VW.  Similar story with the
Avant.  They're still in the V8 5spd, but it's in storage and I have some
Konis Reds for it when it goes back on the road.

My 93 V8 came to me with Koni Yellows and H&Rs.  I replaced the H&R's with
stock V8 springs and absolutely love the ride.  The UFO uprights in the
Avant were hacked to do a big brake conversion so I think I'll probably just
swap those over to the 5spd as whole units someday to be able to run stock
wheels with snows on the wagon.  I should actually swap in the Reds for the
Yellows in the 93 V8 to compare those head to head.  Then the Yellows could
go into the Avant uprights and then into the 5spd when it starts to come
together with the 4.2 swap, etc.

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of robert weinberg
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 10:23 AM
To: 200q20V mailing list
Subject: Re: track pads for the 200

i'd go for bilstein HD's. i have koni yellows and H&R springs - the koni's
are 
already getting soft on the front - and they only have about 30k on them. 

Robby

________________________________
From: Bernie Benz <b.benz at charter.net>
To: David Sexton <sextondm at gmail.com>
Cc: 200q20V mailing list <200q20v at audifans.com>
Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 7:40:09 AM
Subject: Re: track pads for the 200

My suspension is stock, with Konis. Negative camber neutralized by a  
combo of moving strut top outboard as far as possible by filing  
mounting holes in tower top, and adding a strut brace. The latter is  
the best chassis mod that you could make for the track. See my design  
posted to this list many years ago.

Bernie

On Dec 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, David Sexton wrote:

> What kind of setup are you running for suspension?  My car's stock,
> and I don't think I'll ever take it far from there, but H&R's and  
> possibly Koni Yellow's could be in the future  :)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Bernie Benz <b.benz at charter.net>  
> wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: n-engelbert at terrans.net
>> Date: September 20, 2005 9:50:05 AM PDT
>> To: brett at cloud9.net
>> Cc: quattro at audifans.com, 200q20v at audifans.com
>> Subject: Re: track pads for the 200
>>
>>> Last year at Tremblant I borrowed a set of pads from a fellow  
>>> lister- we
>>> think they were Paul Weston carbon pads, but nobody is really  
>>> sure, and
>>> they were not marked, far as I can remember.
>>>
>>> I liked them, though it seemed like they really needed some heat;
>>> initially they wouldn't have much bite, but as they heated up  
>>> braking for
>>> a turn they'd really haul the car down (which I suppose is good-
>>> progressive, and only get stronger as they heat up instead of  
>>> fading out.)
>>>  I ended up with some streaks of pad material; rotor surface was  
>>> very poor
>>> and the brake ducts were missing, so maybe that partially  
>>> explains it.
>>>
>>> Anyway- email to Paul Weston went unanswered several days ago,  
>>> and nobody
>>> answers the phone.  I sent another email from a different  
>>> address, but
>>> this guy seems a little hard to get ahold of, and the website is a
>>> disaster;java applets used as buttons...[shudder].
>>>
>>> So I need pads- by end of this week or early next week.  Don't  
>>> especially
>>> care about dust that much long as it won't eat the hell out of  
>>> the wheels.
>>>  I am looking for something that will stand up well to track rotor
>>> temperatures.  Modulation/progressiveness would be a plus, since  
>>> the UFOs
>>> are not the easiest to modulate.
>>>
>>> I'd rather not have to mess around with sending in backing plates.
>>>
>>> Any recommendations?
>>>
>>> Brett
>>
>> The only readily available "track" pads that I'm aware of for the  
>> UFO's is
>> the Porterfield R4, which I destroyed in a weekend at Autobahn  
>> Country
>> Club in Joliet IL.  Overheated the pads and they were really  
>> cracked.  I
>> then sent the plates into Carbotech (www.carbotecheng.com) and got  
>> the XP9
>> compound.  That was great for two events Grattan and Mid-Ohio.  
>> They've
>> probably got 2 more 30 minute sessions left on them if you need them,
>> Brett.  Although, getting pads from carbotech is not really an  
>> option for
>> you because their lead time is ~1 week.
>>
>> I ran R4S at Blackhawk Farms because I hadn't had my XP9's redone  
>> and wore
>> those down to the backing plates in 2 sessions.  I got nice  
>> stories on how
>> much "smoke" was coming from my wheel wells going into 7 there.  
>> What I
>> ended up running at Blackhawk was the stock Jurid pads, which  
>> didn't brake
>> amazingly, but did hold up to the remaining 5 sessions.
>>
>> HTH!
>>
>> Nathan Engelbert
>> 83 UrQ DA900453
>> 89 90q
>> 91 200q20v avant
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 200q20v
>
>

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