1991 TQ 200 20v with 26k miles

[Ed Kellock]

I found another list of codes that is more comprehensive...

http://www.intendedacceleration.com/fault_codes.html

4411, 4413, 4414 indicate that fuel injectors 1, 3, & 4 have an issue.  I
would suspect that is simply because they are not being triggered.

How long ago was the engine last started?

I believe 2111 is the code that occurs if the engine is not running since
there is no engine speed to sense.

2411 is for the EGR temp sensor or EGR system.  I can't say that I've ever
heard of the 91 200q 20v having that.  Doesn't mean it doesn't though.  Not
sure that would cause a no-start either.  

Did you clear codes before reading?  I think you can do so by pulling the
fuse to the ECU for a minute.  Then crank the engine for at least 15 seconds
and read the codes again.  See if it changes at all.

Ed
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 200q20v-bounces at audifans.com [mailto:200q20v-bounces at audifans.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc.
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 11:44 AM
To: 200q20v at audifans.com
Subject: 1991 TQ 200 20v with 26k miles

I am the guy in NH with the 1991 TQ 200 20v with 26k miles and no start
problem.
I read up on how to pull the codes from the black,brown, and blue connectors
in the driver's footwell.

I got a test light/buzzer combination and that combined with the normal
buzzers in the background was really distracting, but I think I have the
codes now.

The first code using the blinking improvised test light method is 4414,  I
believe I recorded a code 4411, 2111, 2411, and 4412.  Can there be that
many codes that come up on a no-start condition? Can someone tell me what
the codes indicate with my no-start condition?  Is there a table of Audi
codes posted somewhere?

Many thanks in advance for all replies.

Jim in Lebanon, NH

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <200q20v-request at audifans.com>
To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: 200q20v Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:18:31 -0400
> From: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>
> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to discuss 
> many VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>
> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on special test
> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>
> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in 1991. Recently
> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-start, cranks 
> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed the large 
> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs and noted 
> they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what looks like a 
> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and got fuel to 
> spray out.
>
> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay since that
> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what other areas 
> should I look for a problem?
>
> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>
> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in advance.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:06:44 -0500
> From: Tony Hoffman <auditony at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
> Cc: liste Audi <200q20v at audifans.com>
>
> Jim, it sounds like you are getting fuel, if it's spraying out of hte 
> banjo bolt at the fuel rail. Just out of curiosity, can you feel the 
> fuel pump relay click when cranking?
>
> I'd be checking for spark next. If you have none, it's a matter of 
> what is causing that, and probably not firing the injectors also. Is 
> the tach bouncing while cranking? If not, you may have a bad reference 
> or timing sensor. Or, perhaps a bad connection or a (God forbid) mouse 
> chewed wire. Anyhow, let us know what you find.
>
> Oh, and just out of curiosity, where are you at?
>
> Tony
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc. 
> <Jim at hotgrips.com> wrote:
>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to discuss 
>> many VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>
>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on special 
>> test equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>
>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in 1991. Recently
>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-start, cranks 
>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel. ?I changed the large 
>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs and noted 
>> they were all dry. ?I loosened the front banjo bolt on what looks like a 
>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and got fuel to 
>> spray out.
>>
>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay since that
>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix. ?In what other areas 
>> should I look for a problem?
>>
>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>
>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves? Thanks in advance.
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:01:43 -0500
> From: "Brian K. Ullrich" <bullrich at ullrichsys.com>
> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
> To: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
> Cc: "<200q20v at audifans.com>" <200q20v at audifans.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> I agree with Tony. Having just gone through this myself, I'd start 
> with spark.
>
> FYI, the fuel pump assy is IN the fuel tank, and is dirty nasty smelly
> business. Last resort sort of stuff.
>
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 21:18, "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc."
> <Jim at hotgrips.com> wrote:
>
>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to discuss 
>> many VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>
>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on special 
>> test equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>
>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in 1991. Recently
>> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-start, cranks 
>> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed the large 
>> fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs and noted 
>> they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what looks like a 
>> fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and got fuel to 
>> spray out.
>>
>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay since that
>> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what other areas 
>> should I look for a problem?
>>
>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>
>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in advance.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:33:37 -0400
> From: "kneale at knitknacks.com" <kneale at knitknacks.com>
> Subject: RE: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
> To: jim at hotgrips.com,  200q20v at audifans.com
>
> If you have fuel spray, you have fuel pump operation, so I'd look to 
> electrical issues.  Review the stuff on Scott Mockry's resourceful
> website: http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/nostart.html
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc. Jim at hotgrips.com
> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:18:31 -0400
> To: 200q20v at audifans.com
> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>
>
> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to discuss 
> many VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>
> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on special test 
> equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>
> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in 1991. Recently
> I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and no-start, cranks
> strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I changed the large
fuel
> filter in the engine compartment, pulled the spark plugs and noted they
> were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo bolt on what looks like a fuel
> rail above the fuel injectors on top of the engine and got fuel to spray
> out.
>
> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay since that 
> would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what other 
> areas should I look for a problem?
>
> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>
> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in advance. 
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:53:57 -0400
> From: "feelstranger" <feelstranger at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
>
> Is that a Typo??  Did you really mean 26K miles?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jim Hollander at Hot Grips Mfg., Inc." <Jim at hotgrips.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:18 PM
> To: <200q20v at audifans.com>
> Subject: Need guidance on a '91 TQ 200 20v that won't start
>
>> Have the Bentley manuals (set of 3 volumes) but they seem to discuss 
>> many VW and Vag-Com tools I will never have access to.
>>
>> Is there a troubleshooting guidebook that doesn't rely on special 
>> test equipment to make progress in diagnosing a no-start problem?
>>
>> My car has low miles (26k) and have owned it since new in 1991.  
>> Recently I went to start it to get the rust off the brakes and 
>> no-start, cranks strong, but acts like it is not getting any fuel.  I 
>> changed the large fuel filter in the engine compartment, pulled the 
>> spark plugs and noted they were all dry.  I loosened the front banjo 
>> bolt on what looks like a fuel rail above the fuel injectors on top 
>> of the engine and got fuel to spray out.
>>
>> Relevant fuse #13 is OK, so I ordered a new fuel pump relay since 
>> that would be an easy to replace low cost possible fix.  In what 
>> other areas should I look for a problem?
>>
>> Is access to the fuel pump beneath the spare tire plastic tub?
>>
>> Can anyone make some suggestions on my next moves?  thanks in advance.