[ba] traffic attorney?

Seth Haynes sethejhaynes at hotmail.com
Mon Jul 12 12:26:25 PDT 2010 

Agreed.....and FWIW, I have never won a trial by declaration, but do think it is smart to go that route. My only success has come in court, but will consider your comments in the future. 

> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:59:37 -0700
> From: ckm at crust.net
> To: sethejhaynes at hotmail.com
> CC: ba-group at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: [ba] traffic attorney?
> 
> Well, I'm having an 80% success rate.   Sure, they have pre-written 
> arguments, which is why you have to find a very, very specific technical 
> error (by, for example, referencing a mistake in traffic markings vs 
> what is specified in the MUTCD) that will not be part of their standard 
> arguments.
> 
> Most police officers I know have terrible writing skills, it doesn't 
> take much to seem more cogent.
> 
> Anyway, it's not like you are loosing anything as a trial by written 
> declaration allows you to go to court anyway and the statements being 
> admissible goes both ways.
> 
> Three things everyone should pay attention to:
> 
> 1. The MUTCD - your secret weapon
> 2. The back of the officers copy of the ticket
> 3. The actual law around the violation listed on the ticket
> 
> Most people I know, including most lawyers, don't do enough research to 
> build a case that is difficult to respond to without as much research. 
> For example, I got a red light ticket when I blew threw a blinking red 
> at a blocked off intersection.  It turns out that the MUTCD actually 
> specifies specifically how lights should be setup when non-operational, 
> and this particular light was in violation.
> 
> No one said this was particularly simple, but it is very, very possible 
> to beat tickets, most people fail because they are arguing beliefs or 
> against the officers facts.  That never works, you need to find some 
> other reason - like the Prima Facie evidence of which speed you should 
> be traveling is wrong because it violates the 85th percentile law or the 
> markings or light timing on the intersection was wrong.
> 
> But, whatever, it's your money, your points and your license.  If it's 
> not worth your time to research how to defend yourself, you should just 
> pay it and deal.
> 
> Oh, and don't bother with an attorney who's not familiar with traffic 
> law, that's a waste of time.  Most don't even know the MUTCD even exists.
> 
> Chris.
> ==
> Chris Maresca - (re)starts, revenue & market growth, technology
> ckm at chrismaresca.com / +1.415.305.4496 / www.chrismaresca.com
> skype: ckmaresca  / LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/chrismaresca
> 
> 
> ==
> Chris Maresca - (re)starts, revenue & market growth, technology
> ckm at chrismaresca.com / +1.415.305.4496 / www.chrismaresca.com
> skype: ckmaresca  / LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/chrismaresca
> 
> On 7/10/10 6:46 PM, Seth Haynes wrote:
> > The problem with a trial by written declaration is that it does take
> > less time (less money) for the officer to write one to. They have
> > pre-written arguments and statements of facts..... And the Judge DOES
> > NOT think of you as innocent. Judges will weigh the testimony of sworn
> > in peace officers significantly more than civilians trying to wiggle out
> > of a ticket.
> >
> > I don't think anyone here is against a Trial By Written Declaration,
> > written correctly of course. With a trial though, there is the chance of
> > the officer not showing up. If the officer does, and the verdict is not
> > to your liking, you can request an appeal. The one catch here is that if
> > you attempt a Trial By Written Declaration, then a court trial and then
> > an appeal, all the evidence is admissible.
> >
> > I've written three Trials By Declaration and have been found guilty
> > every time. I even had an attorney write on up for me.......no, I didn't
> > pay the attorney, as he is my friend. I bring it up as to point out that
> > even if a professional writes one, there is still less propensity for an
> > outcome in your favor (in my experience).
> >
> >  > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:08:02 -0700
> >  > From: ckm at chrismaresca.com
> >  > To: ba-group at audifans.com
> >  > Subject: Re: [ba] traffic attorney?
> >  >
> >  > I don't understand why you are bothering to go to court when you can do
> >  > a trial by written declaration (which has an automatic court trial if
> >  > you don't like the verdict).
> >  >
> >  > Seriously, if you go to court, you will likely loose unless you have
> >  > been trained as a lawyer. Written declaration levels this by forcing
> >  > both parties into static, written arguments.
> >  >
> >  > I've fought 6 tickets and one 5 in this fashion (two of them were even
> >  > red light tickets). The only thing it costs is time, research and a
> >  > postage stamp. Oh, and the MUTCD is your friend in a lot of cases, so
> >  > is the 85th percentile law.
> >  >
> >  > Finally, as I've said before, a lawyer is a waste of money unless you
> >  > are about to loose your license. Most traffic lawyers will charge you
> >  > around $500 flat fee to take your case, more if it's something like DUI.
> >  >
> >  > Chris.
> >  >
> >  > On 7/9/10 1:48 AM, Seth Haynes wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > > To second Steve's comments.......
> >  > >
> >  > > I've fought three, got off on one when the officer did not show (I
> > skipped out of court!), the other two had mistakes on several details
> > regarding the infractions. The first ticket indicated the incorrect
> > color of the car I was driving and the incorrect license plate number.
> > The second infraction indicated the incorrect intersection I was said to
> > have performed an illegal u-turn at.
> >  > >
> >  > > The infraction with the wrong color and wrong license plate WRITTEN
> > on the infraction was a guilty verdict. The infraction indicating the
> > incorrect intersection (the intersection written on the ticket ALLOWED
> > legal u-turns) resulted in a guilty verdict. In both cases, the officer
> > plainly said that he wrote the wrong information on the ticket..... the
> > judge calmly asked both officers if it was a mistake. Both officers
> > fessed to the mistakes, and then the judge (the same judge both times)
> > asked if they witnessed me doing what they said. Both officers in
> > different cases said yes. When the judge quickly asked me if I had any
> > questions for the officers, I brought up the fact that the color,
> > license, intersection, etc. were all incorrect and thus that in the name
> > of justice I should be found not guilty. There were several interactions
> > back and forth, each building a case for not guilty.......... In each
> > case, the judge asked me if I had any further questions, blah blah blah.
> > Gave
> >  > l comes down, guilty, both times.
> >  > >
> >  > > Judges are there in traffic court to collect revenue. That's it.
> > Officers are there to write tickets, in which case the judges are there
> > to collect revenue. The ONLY times I have ever witnessed not guilty
> > verdicts were in the cases of no shows on behalf of revenue enforcing
> > officers.
> >  > >
> >  > > Your best chance is to show in court, plead not guilty, show to the
> > trial date, and if the verdict is not to your liking, file an appeal.
> > Then and only then, hire an attorney. Hiring an attorney before an
> > appeal is a waste of time, plain and simple. Have the attorney request a
> > trial by jury. the judge will laugh in your face and claim that is a
> > waste of tax payers money (he wants a high conviction rate and more
> > revenue earned) , but don't let that scare you, it is YOUR RIGHT!
> >  > >
> >  > > One thing is certain....a trail by your peers will certainly favor
> > you more than a trial by a judge and an officer.
> >  > >
> >  > > Good luck!
> >  > >
> >  > >> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:38:13 -0700
> >  > >> From: urq222 at ymail.com
> >  > >> To: ba-group at audifans.com
> >  > >> Subject: Re: [ba] traffic attorney?
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Hey Shayne!
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Sorry to hear of your fortune ... certainly an odd one! You joked
> > about it, but there's little doubt a "shouty" red S4 is going to make
> > you more obvious to the Revenue Enhancement Officers ...
> >  > >>
> >  > >> While you will face an uphill battle compared to people fighting
> > radar speedtrap tickets (which are supposedly easy to beat), I would
> > give serious consideration to fighting the ticket. On my soapbox a
> > little ... I believe the system is deliberately set up to get people to
> > pay their "sin tax" rather than fighting the ticket. If more people went
> > to court instead of traffic school there'd be a bit less incentive to
> > write tickets in situations like yours. Over the years I've fought two
> > tickets ... lost both, but I'm still glad I did it.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> I'm a bit torn on the thought of getting an attorney ... I think
> > you'd get less credit from the judge with a lawyer. The thing is that a
> > lawyer might be more skilled in approaches for discrediting the officer
> > if you know there are points where his documentation of the event is
> > flawed. If you had any passengers who you can use as witnesses it might
> > be enough to put you over the top.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> The thing is that you will have to put your time into preparing
> > the case. My first tilt at the windmill was a speeding ticket where I'm
> > sure the rules for use of radar were not met. I was told they had the
> > traffic surveys at the court, but when I got there I learned that you
> > had to subpoena them ... that pretty much shot me down there. I was also
> > convinced that the lights were timed for faster than the posted limit,
> > which I documented by measuring the distance between lights and timing
> > ... didn't help. You might consider sitting in at the court just to see
> > how things go before you commit yourself ...
> >  > >>
> >  > >> So ... no recommendations on lawyers ... look a couple up and ask
> > them what they think about your chances of beating the ticket, and what
> > they would bring to the table if you engaged them ...
> >  > >>
> >  > >> OBTW, the other ticket I fought was a "driving on the shoulder"
> > ticket I got while lane splitting coming up to a metering light on a
> > ramp. Half the traffic at the metering light was on the shoulder (there
> > was supposed to be only one lane, but traffic always made two ... not
> > just the motorcycles). I took pictures of the situation and did what I
> > felt was a good job of explaining things in court ... but the
> > commissioner still went with the REO. Not long after my case CalTrans
> > restriped the ramp to make it more clear that there was a single lane.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Good luck!
> >  > >> Steve Buchholz
> >  > >>
> >  > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >  > >>
> >  > >> so a week ago i got a speeding tix on the 580. only prob is (for
> > once) I
> >  > >> WAS NOT SPEEDING! i am sure i was "randomly" singled out of a crowd of
> >  > >> cars. even tho i was reported to be in lane 1, i was actually in
> > lane 2
> >  > >> being passed by a diesel mercedes WAGON with biodiesel plastered
> > on the back
> >  > >> of of it. piss on me for driving a red s4 with a shouty exhaust. i
> > guess i
> >  > >> should sell it for an old diesel MBZ or a prius.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> ANYWAY, anyone know of an attorney in alameda county (oakland PD)
> > that could
> >  > >> handle my tix? i have not been pulled over in 10+ years and i
> > ain't about
> >  > >> to start funding the city's coffers.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> thank you all.
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Shayne
> >  > >>
> >  > >> PARTING:
> >  > >> 1972 mercedes benz 280 se 4.5
> >  > >> 1986 audi 4000 cs quattro
> >  > >> 1990 audi coupe quattro
> >  > >> 1995 audi S6
> >  > >> http://spokane.craigslist.org/pts/1831227937.html
> >  > >> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/1831261447.html
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
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