20v motors and TAP chips. Part II

[Joseph Rae]

Ned does infact make the chips. Just like Scott Mockry makes his chips, and
other people on the list do as well. Remember that on the 10vt chip
technology there is OLD. REALLY REALLY OLD. Remember that Steven Jobs
started Macintosh out of his garage, they were making computers, why is it
so hard to believe that someone could reprogram a chip on their own?

I have actually run a couple different chips in my car. The Tap chip is the
only one I own. But I will be getting a IA chip because of some problems
with the tap chip. However the tap chip does just as good as the others at
not pinging at boost levels. This also has been proven with a fuel
enrichment monitor, and a data acquisition board.

The Problems that I see with the TAP chip are...
The boost gauge in the dash does not report the right boost, however my VDO
does. So that is not a BIG deal.
The major problem is that if I am getting on the gas to accelerate, and I am
getting full boost, then I lift the throttle, or go to a neutral throttle
position. The boost will spike as if falls past 5psi, causing the car to
surge ahead, and is scary as hell the first time it happens to you.
This does not happen on a Scott Mockry chip, an IA chip, or an Orin Eman
chip?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Dikeman" <quattro at pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net>
To: "Eric Fletcher S.O.C." <Steadi at swbell.net>; "David Sugerman"
<dmsnva at yahoo.com>; <quattro at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: 20v motors and TAP chips. Part II


> At 5:18 PM -0500 10/10/00, Eric Fletcher S.O.C. wrote:
> >  > So far I have only received negative feedback
> >>  regarding the TAP products. What's the scoop? Are they
> >>  bad for the engine? Do they not provide what they say
> >>  they do? Both?
> >
> >TAP = BOOM!
>
> Except for the itty-bitty fact that the TAP chip, Ned's chip, and the
> Hoppen chip are all, from what I've been told, -exactly- the same.
>
> Ned's chip differs only in some minor fields used to identify things
> like the engine code the ECU belongs to.  All this information came
> from a member of the 200q20v list who told me he managed to get his
> hands on most of the various chip mods, including ones designed to go
> with RS2 turbos and injectors...that sort of thing.  Take his opinion
> with a grain of salt of course.  He emailed his info to me privately
> months ago...not to the list.
>
> However, I find it -highly- suspicious that a guy up in washington
> state with no r&d capital, somehow managed to turn out a chip that's
> better than (or even equal to) anybody else's, including that of a
> major european tuner, for what is arguably a very complex engine.
> The answer is he probably didn't; he most likely licensed it just
> like Hoppen did(at least hoppen admits they did; Ned flat out lied to
> me on the phone a while back when I was considering buying his ECU.)
> Because of his strong following by, and reputation with,
> enthusiasts...he can charge more for his services.  The prices for
> the various chips are all based on reputation and perception.
>
> This lister also said that he found the quality of the solder job to
> be best in the Hoppen unit; in my opinion, any of the three probably
> does a good enough job for anyone, so I wouldn't really put that high
> on my list of reasons why to choose which vendor.  I would personally
> find inclusion of the old roms and sensor more important.
>
> I wouldn't recommend installing the spring you can buy with the chip
> from TAP; they may not even sell it any more.  That spring -will-
> cause problems.  Why?  Well, with the wastegate frequency valve
> completely disconnected, the 3B engine will still get about 1.3 bar
> of boost.  Installation of the spring will raise that up only god
> knows how much...closer to the maximum boost the engine would run,
> stock(1.83 bar.)  Besides, it's not necessary; TAP's 200q20v mod now
> uses a 2.5 bar sensor; it doesn't need a spring.  According to the
> previous owner of my ECU, Sarge, the chip is good for "277hp."  Mind
> you, Sarge's engine blew..but it wasn't because of the chip.  Rather,
> he noticed large amounts of smoke on startup(very bad sign on a 20v
> engine) and did nothing for a while.  Not a smart move, and he admits
> so.  Oh, and his car had something like 200k on it.   This wasn't an
> S4tt not yet off the lease.
>
> I've spoken to experienced mechanics who run TAP chips in their own
> cars and customer cars.  His opinion was that in almost every case he
> had heard of where a TAP chip was suspected of causing problems,
> substitution of a stock ECU didn't solve any problems and it was
> later discovered that there were mechanical(sensor, vacuum, you name
> it) problems.  I've only heard of a very limited number of actual
> serious problems(no start conditions and the like), and I suspect the
> only reason we've heard of them is Igor's bedside manner.  Other
> tuners probably take care of their customers better, and as a result,
> that customer doesn't bitch to the world.  That's why you have dozens
> of honda dealerships in one state...it isn't about the product, it's
> about the service.
>
> Find me a car that doesn't work well with a TAP ECU, and I'll show
> you a car that doesn't work well with a Hoppen or Ned box...and
> probably not well with a stock ecu, either(though symptoms may be
> more subtle.)
>
> My car has a TAP ecu, and I'm happy with it...have been for almost
> 40,000 miles on a car 500 miles away from its 150,000th mile.  I've
> been told I've got a little smoke on strong running...but I've seen
> this in almost every 20v turbo motor of similar vintage or even half
> the age(actually, I've noticed that S6's tend to have a strong
> rotten-egg smell under full boost; I did a run with one up to mt
> washington over several hours.  Every time the hammer dropped, the
> eggs came out :-)
>
> I also noticed that my car -really- likes long drives; after about 2
> hours, the car gets damn zippy and -very- responsive.  Haven't quite
> figured that one out...
>
> Brett
> --
> ----
> Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer
> CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043
> 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax)
> White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com
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