350 HP Potential for CIS

Thu Sep 21 10:43:22 EDT 2000

Heya Gary, (and anyone else with 4ktq's or 80tq's)
   I'm curious what your G-tech numbers are.   NOw that my car is running Decently (5 warm up reg's, all new temp sensors, and different Fuel Dist later)  I'm doing 10psi (nothign to brag about but nothing to whine about either, it will do more but untill I have a second vehicle on backup I'm being nice to my baby)  But at 10psi with a partially covered ur-q IC and 8.8:1 compression I'm getting a 6.9sec 0 - 60 with a moderate launch (IE...no 4k RPM drop with wheelspin, just 2,500, let it out and go)  and I'm showing like 145hp at the rear wheels.  THe 0-60 stays fairly constant but the Hp varies a lot.   But 145 seems to be a good average.  Anyhow, so thats what,  180hp at flywheel?  Something like that.  Its a KH motor that is in Dire need of a cam.  Cant wait to get that in there.
   As for the rest of this thread, I agree.  275 seems to be the limit.  to get more you need some EM, Intake Man, work.  Oh, and an RS-2 or similar turbo.
l8r
  Todd
  "Kaklikian, Gary" <Gary.Kaklikian at compaq.com> wrote: 
As content as I am with CIS + MF2 injector driver with 2 motronic injectors
on my car, I'd estimate I'm getting at most 280hp at 17psi boost even with a
cam, p/p head, 944 compressor wheel & intercooler, etc. My car has the MC-2
CIS, but I'm using the older-style internal, plunger-type fuel pressure
regulator, which has been shimmed. I'm also using two fuel pumps - an UrQ
and a 930 turbo.

Even with an EFI, as Javad says, larger valves, a custom exhaust manifold,
and an even larger turbo (K27?) are prerequisites for 
350 hp. Maybe I could get more hp even with the CIS/MF2 by using a lower
compression ratio and a larger turbo/more boost. But IMO it's not worth
sacrificing mid-range torque for more top-end, particularly on a street car.
(Another, taller gear would really be nice though)

I wonder what the horsepower limit was on the 930 turbo with CIS. The 930
used two fuel pumps, oversize fuel lines, and a large fuel distributor.

Aren't we all just speculating on these horsepower figures anyway? Anyone
put a Quattro with a modified 10vt on a 4wheel dyno, or even a 2wheel with
the driveshaft removed? How accurately does the G-Tech measure horsepower? 

Gary Kaklikian
86 4ktq
92 S4 

-----Original Message-----
From: JShadzi at aol.com [mailto:JShadzi at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 11:38 PM
To: wlockwoo at zoo.uvm.edu
Cc: quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: 350 HP Potential for CIS

In a message dated 9/12/00 3:40:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
wlockwoo at zoo.uvm.edu writes:

<< I have read different posts that indicate the Ned Ritchie says that CIS
is
good for about 350 hp in a MAC-11 engine. What are the necessary steps to
building one of these 350 hp engines? How did the rally cars using the
10v head get 400 hp? What injection did they
use? Graydon? Scott? Igor? What do you guys know about this?

If I left you out I didn't mean to...
>>

The race cars used EFI, some 2 injectors per cylinder. You will be hard

pressed to push an I5 to 350 hp without seriously freeing up air
restrictions 
as Todd mentioned earlier. I believe it would at minimum require a custom 
free flowing header to start with, as well as a larger, single pass IC.
Gary 
K would know about pushing CIS to its limits, but if I remember correctly he

said about 260 was the limit for him (Gary?)
If you did a serious port job on the head and manifold, went to bigger 
intake valves (I measured a TransAm head at Eurospec, it had 41mm/36mm 
valves), did a custom exh. manifold, a larger turbo such as RS2 or 
turbonetics, and went to an after market EFI system you could get rid of
that 
darn fuel dist all together. Plus, by removing fuel dist. it will make room

for a bigger turbo and manifold. Lastly, a 4" exhaust thru the firewall
past 
the passenger seat out the side door to finish it up (that last one optional

;)
I am currently involved with a few projects converting to EFI,
definitely 
the way to go, that dist. is nothing but trouble! HTH,
Javad
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Todd Phenneger
    83' ur-q (awaiting a 20vt)
    84' 4ktq  fun but I'm sick of CIS.

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