034 EFI

[Ken Keith]

On 4 Dec 2001, at 14:16, Nate Stuart wrote:
>
> Quoting me:
> >
> > Wow, good info.  If this is easier to get running than the stock CIS, then
> > it might make sense for me to put it in at the same time the long block
> > goes into the 4kstq project.  My worry is mainly getting it to pass smog,
> > the visual inspection portion.  I have to both title and register my car,
> > since it hasn't ran since I bought it.  I couldn't get it changed into my
> > name due to no smog check due to not running.
>
> Hmm, I don't have any help for you there. The only 'smog' check we have here
> in Maine is a visual inspection that there is a catalytic converter.

When I got my 5kcstq smogged (it failed initially, I think I replaced the
O2 sensor, can't even remember now), they looked under the hood and
at the stickers.  They waved a couple other smog-jockey's over to take
a look at the engine compartment, and then when it was all said and
done, they marked "inaccessible" next to the inspection notes for some
of the components.  Basically they made it so they didn't actually see
the devices they were checking for, but it was still okay because they
were supposed to be there.  Don't know if that makes sense.

Basically, I'm wondering if the entire passenger side of the engine bay is
empty due to converting to EFI, then it'll be much easier for them to see
what's there.  I guess if I retain all the smog stuff that it originally have, it
will be okay, like carbon canisters and such.  It just wont look stock,
and I'm probably not match the sticker exactly.

> > I see that the stock intake air temp sensor is not usable.  Where do you
> > mount the new one?  Can you use the existing location in the
> > intercooler, if it is being used in the conversion?  And even if you can,
> is
> > it the best place to take the reading?
>
> I chose to drill out a spot in the IM and screwed the sensor right into the
> IM (very easy to do, the sensor is a standard pipe thread).
> Check out:
> http://www.newtsplace.com/90tq/imageview.php?mode=view&album=intake&pic=cone.jpg&dispsize=640
> To see it mounted, not a very good pic, but you'll get the idea...

Okay, I see it now.  I didn't catch that initially.

> > On the fuel rail, it looks like that Force company offers the option of
> > sending in your manifold to have the injector fittings or hole machined in
> > the proper location.  It sounds easy enough to do it at home as you did.
>
> You don't need to machine the manifold at all. You replace the original CIS
> inserts in the head with the EFI variant, then the injectors reside soley in
> the head. You do need to drill out the hole in the fuel rail, but that is
> very straight forward to do, an I just tapped the ends of the rail with a
> 1/4" NPT tap, and used some 1/4"NPT->-06AN adaptors.

What I meant in this regard was only for spacing of the injector holes in
the fuel rail itself.  I can't find again what I thought I saw on the website,
does also describe a service they offer to machine the fuel rail to match
the intake manifold, as well as to install the injector bosses into the
intake manifold as you probably thought I meant.

For example, for their systems, they list two options for the fuel rails,
depending on if it's a conversion done by them or a kit:

"2 Fuel Rails. (machined to fit customer supplied manifold and
mounted)"
or:
"3 feet fuel rail stock. (unmachined)"

When I posted, I was thinking they w/could put the holes in the fuel rail
to match the manifold.  It sure doesn't sound that difficult reading your
webpage describing the spacing.

I guess I'm thinking about the difficulties Graydon had when he did his
EFI conversion.  Here's an excerpt from his page:

"The last big item was the fuel rail.  It was a little
tricky to get it to fit between the throttle cam and the #1 injector. 
The end of the #1 injector is very close to the throttle cam, and leaves
very little room for the fuel rail.  The CIS injectors are much shorter
than electronic injectors.  I had trouble making the fuel rail seal
up.  It would seal with air in a pail of water, but when I put gasoline
under pressure, it leaked.  I finally got it to seal up with some
liberal brazing, but by that time, it was pretty ugly."

That's from http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~graydon/5kcstq.html

Like in this picture, it is pretty close:
http://www.newtsplace.com/90tq/imageview.php?mode=view&album=fuelrail&pic=throttlebodyclose_2.jpg&dispsize=640&start=0

> > Also, just to confirm.  The fuel rail you ended up using came from
> > "Fodge Engineering", and the link you provide for similar units is "Force
> > Fuel Injection", and these are not related, right?  Basically Dan Fodge
> > doesn't have a website, so you're providing linkage to similar products?
>
> Exactly.

I like the part that says "Our Price Sheet Subject to change and
customer attitude. Call for details."  In other words, please call so we
can gauge your attitude and determine the pricing! :-)

> > And lastly, the reason why there's no cam trigger setup for the efi is
> > because on the 90's you can use the stock hall sender for this.  On
> > 5kcstq or 200tq flywheel and CIS, you can't do this and have to put your
> > own trigger on, right?
>
> The flywheel really has nothing to do with it (for my application anyway)
> there are no sensors picking up any signals off of it. If you do use a MC
> computer for timing, then yes, you will have to setup the 5 timing pins and
> a sensor to watch them wiz by. I don't think I would really want to go
> through the hassle of installing the entire MAC-11 just for the timing. I
> would hit up a junkyard and find a NA 5 banger with knock sensing and grab
> what you need to get a much simpler ign in your 4k(t;)q.

I'm not yet at the point to where I'm more comfortable coming up with
my own combination of stock parts to get the car on the road.  For me, I
think I'll go through the steps to bring over the MC-1 ignition and CIS, at
least at first to get it running, smogged, titled, and registered.

Ok, I read Javad's recent post describing it as much easier to install the
efi and a CIS system a car that didnt have it.  I understand and accept
that.  But it looks like my current thought process is that I still have to
integrate the ignition side of the MAC11 setup into the 4ksq.

What I'm wondering is how big of a job is it to swap over just the ignition
side of a 5kcstq into a 4ksq.

I realize this will all make sense and I'll have more intelligent questions
to ask once I actually get started.  I just want to make sure I start out in
the right direction.

Thanks!

Ken