New member: Help! 88 Audi 80

[brett at cloud9.net]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:24:22 -0500 "MAJ John B. Hashem" wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I purchased an 88 Audi 80 and am trying to revive it.  I am not much
> of a mechanic, so hard to diagnose.  Here is the deal.  The car blows 
> black smoke and stalls constantly when cold.  It will discontinue
> running after a bit of time.  I had an Audi dealer check it out and
> they got it running, and said it ran quite nicely.  My wife drove it
> from Harrisburg, PA to Washington DC, but it conked out just short of 
> home (after blowing black smoke).  She said the speedometer and most
> electrical items were not working.
> 
> Here are the details:
> 
> Previous owner had the distributor replaced, new fuel injection pump, 
> coolant temp sensor.  The invoice says that it still needed repairs
> to fuel trim and pressure wires.

How about the fuel filter?

> 
> I purchased it and sent it to the dealer.  They replaced the battery, 
> installed fuel injection fuses, replaced plug wires.  They said it
> was running great at the shop but stalled.  They wanted to replace o2 
> sensor and do this cold start kit thing...I rejected this

"cold start thing"?

Black smoke is rich running...Megan could be right that the fuel metering 
head has seized, but you need a good VW or Audi shop that knows CIS to
figure out if this is the case. They may have alternatives, such as
rebuilding.  Independent shops are usually more creative about possible
solutions than dealers, which have limited time to spend on any
particular car, limited training for the staff, etc.

Have you covered all the basics?

-vacuum leaks/vacuum lines that are cracked/brittle(look particularly
near hot engine components)
-recently changed air filter?
-did you try a bottle of fuel injector cleaner?  Techron is one of the
best. You will probably need the one-shot stuff, about $10 I think.  The
under-$5 stuff is "continuous use" formula, for prevention, not removal.  
Change the oil after using the one-shot stuff, it leaves things behind in 
the oil that breaks it down.
-proper oil level, oil recently changed, good quality filter installed(no 
Frams, Ma'am; Mahle is OEM, cheap from Blau or any number of other
places), good oil(Mobil 1 is excellent, will last 5k miles easy on a
non-turbo car)
-compression and leakdown check?  If there's a huge amount of blowby,
it'll screw up a lot of things
-how many miles?  The CIS injectors may be shot or clogged beyond what a
bottle of cleaner will fix.  Again, a good VW or Audi shop :-)
-don't replace the O2 sensor just yet, cover all the basics. They're
damaged easily by serious problems, so it's best to clear up all the
"biggies" first.  Think of O2 sensors as the little tuning ring on old TV 
sets. Get onto the right channel before you start fine-tuning the picture :-)

Also, it sounds like the previous owner was pretty negligent in
maintenance.   A switch to synthetic oil might be a good idea, as would
outright replacement of any filters that you know haven't been replaced.  
If it wasn't mentioned by the PO, replace it. Flush the brake fluid
including the clutch line.  I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't been
changed in years and your mechanic gets black, rusty fluid out.  A flush
of the hydraulic oil circuit might be a good idea too.  Have the A/C
system checked(compressors are VERY expensive depending upon the car.)
Have the coolant system flushed and use a high quality antifreeze in
proper concentration for your climate(some will caution against flushes
etc, saying they open up leaks in heater cores and radiators; I've got
news...if it leaks after the flush, it was going to leak some time in the 
near future, and probably when the coolant is nice and scalding hot and
you're miles from home.)

Also check the condition of the brake pads; thickness of the brake
rotors, etc.  Regardless of the transmission type, have the fluid level
checked(automatics are easier than manuals, but it can still be done.)
If it's a quattro, have the rear differential oil replaced, it's probably 
never been done.  Have the CV joints checked to make sure the boots are
not ripped, and they've still got grease in them.  Pulling the caps off
the hubs to see if the grease level inside is OK is a good idea as well,
wheel bearing jobs are messy, messy messy and if you don't have a bearing 
puller, a royal PITA(been there, done that 2x!)

Lastly, timing belts.  If the owner didn't tell you when it was last
done, call him/her and ASK.  If they say they don't remember and can't
find the records, haul the car to a Audi/VW mechanic immediately and have 
the belt inspected particularly if the car has just passed a multiple of
60,000 miles(the change interval) or the previous owner owned the car
during one of those 60,000 mile intervals.  If there is any sign of
cracking or wear, have the belt and all necessary parts replaced,
including the water pump(I believe there are two kinds of pumps, one made 
in germany, the other in italy; the italian pump squeeks, the german one
doesn't.)  If the belt snaps, or the water pump seizes and shreds the
belt+snaps it, you're in for one very expensive job, possibly a complete
engine replacement.  Tbelts also tend to snap more in the winter, when
the rubber is brittle, oil's thicker, etc.

A lot of this isn't absolutely necessary, save the timing belt check.
Doing as many checks, however, will give you and your wife confidence in
the car and help prevent large monetary "surprises."  Otherwise, you
could end up with part after part failing because of the previous owner's 
negligence; some people just drive cars until they break, and then try to 
off load the car onto someone else.


> My wife said the car ran a bit rough enroute home and **Important**
> it used a whole tank of gas to go 150 miles...more than our follow on 
> vehicle-a jeep grand Cherokee.
> 
> So, what are the opinions out there?  easy fix?
> should I unload it?
  

#1, a good audi mechanic or VW shop; go to the list's homepage at
audifans.com, and on the right is a link to a list of recommended parts
vendors and mechanics.  #2, anybody's guess.  #3, no, you shouldn't, at
least not without fully disclosing everything that is wrong with the car. 
It is unethical and quite possibly illegal(not to mention, the buyer
might show up on your doorstep with what a coworker and I refer to as the 
"Brooklyn Calling Card" :-)

I would investigate your options for returning the car to the seller if
you feel the repairs make the total cost of repairs+what you paid too
much for you; certainly save every reciept/quote from day 1.  I seem to
remember Ebay has some sort of mandatory 30 day return?  The state you
bought it in may also have some used-car lemon laws.  However, in most
states with lemon laws, the key is this...did the seller disclose to you
the problems with the car?  If they said "runs great, no problems" and
never mentioned to you that it blows black smoke, gets horrible mileage,
etc, then you probably have a good case.  I would certainly leave
negative feedback for the seller(be precise in your feedback so it is
hard to refute.)

This is a good example of why you should never buy a car sight unseen.
Except in cases where you are aware that the car needs work and you're
willing to do it because it's rare or what have you(say, it's an 85 UrQ
and you're planning on retiring in a week :-), you should a)have the car
inspected by a competent AUDI MECHANIC, NOT a dealer and NOT a place that 
doesn't know Audis and b)drive the car for a good 20-30 minutes or more
before you finalize the deal; get it up to highway speeds, get it onto
some back roads with a little twist to them...don't be obnoxious or play
rally driver, but play with the car a little.  I wasn't meticulous enough 
in my test drive of my 200q20v, and I'm sorry about it.  There were
numerous problems I didn't see, and the dealer who looked over the car
was incompetant, as was the german car shop that also looked it over.

Brett