CIS airflow meter limits HP? (Martin Pajak) /sorry it's long.....

[J123fs at aol.com]

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[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Maybe you missed my earlier reply:

"Mostly I was making a point that all the Bosch systems (CIS,motronic, ect..=
.=2E) use the VERY SAME components, and I rather think that arguing sematic=
s on actual airflow through either a mass flow meter or air-meter plate is =
moot, as IT WILL FLOW MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to make BIG HP. The original que=
ston was if the CIS airflow meter limits the HP, correct?
The answer is a qualified no.
I also stick to my guns regarding if the system "could" make big HP, which =
IMHO I believe it could, with proper mods..(stock Bosch, VW/Audi "off the s=
helf" parts )
As far as Dyno figures to back it up, there where many Dyno tests documente=
d back in VW/Porsche magazine back in the day (now European Car mag)to back=
up my opinion on CIS fuel injection in all of it's various forms; although=
admittedly they where based on 4 clyn. Vw, and flat six Porsche motors, wh=
ich are close family members to both the Audi motors and injection systems, =
so I feel they are valid to base my argument on regarding all this bench ra=
cing talk."

With regard to the original question if a Airflow meter is the "ultimate
restriction" for HP in the system I still stick to my guns stating that it is
not the roadblock to HP in the Type 44 system, and if you want to take the
discussion off the list into some hard science, lets do that, not sling
verbal mud.
 And as I stated I have seen plenty of CIS based systems that make big HP,
both in Magazines and in some race cars, doing just that, (making big HP) not
just from one limited experience. I also have twenty years worth of Bosch
service manuals/info laying around for various fuel systems, and it seems
they ALL roughly have the same operating parameters; Kinda ironically funny,
huh? Without regards to motor size, or HP nonetheless...go figure...Hummm...
Better sources of TRULY RELIABLE (if my info will not do) info may be better
found off list with some engine builders like Tectonics, or Drake (VW) and
some of the Porsche race teams that abound out there.
I do think, as I have worked on many different CIS systems (VW, Porsche, MB,
Volvo, maybe some BMW, to name specifics, that give me some basis for my
info) that there is dramatic variances in the size of some of the components,
but they are more or less similar, and they all go back in lineage to some of
the original Bosch/Porsche Fuel injection systems that made Big HP in the low
teens (x100) in the early turbo Porsche's of yore.
My almost twenty years of working with CIS and other fine systems does lead
me to believe (unlike you) that you could in fact mix and match some existing
Bosch FI components to get a system with much higher potential HP figures
than stock.
I'm sorry if you do not feel that way, but in reality can you honestly tell
me as a fact that CIS Porsche systems are not engineered to handle more HP?
Are you on the Bosch payroll as an engineer?
And do you think that the Bosch engineers did not design in a degree of
tunably for their systems?
Can you state as a fact that a MB CIS air flow plate from a 450 SL will not
work with an AUDI CIS system for a 2.1 motor?
Or one from a 3.0 flat six?
I think they could.
And, I admit it is just my opinion, based on the facts I have at hand, and in
memory.
As far as how much flow can go through the actual orifice of the CIS meter
plate, I would suspect that maybe you could go and consult a physics
reference book regarding fluid dynamics to yield the proper equations.
If you truly would like me to go pull my college textbooks from the attic to
prove my point on flow, I could (I worked my way through college as a
mechanic), although with great hesitation, as in my experience with some of
this list's raves and flame wars I'm inclined to not even bother regarding
issues that really do not matter, in the big scheme of things.
 And now I regret even replying to this to begin with, as this seems to have
degraded from what could have been a cool technical discussion to one with
accusatory tones in the writing.
If I have unwillingly contributed (I think I may have!) to this I apologize
now, but I feel sometimes you do have to speak up.
See ya
Johnny