1990 80q no heat

Wed Oct 23 00:46:52 EDT 2002

Thanks for the info guys.  I'm more experienced in the Asian cars (Honda
Crx) than I'll ever be with my Audi ( I just finished an engine swap) so any
info I can glean off you experienced and smarter guys will be much
appreciated.  I dont' know much about my 80q, but I can learn cause the
thing is damn expensive to have someone to work on.  I'm tkaing the dash
apart now, but I've determined that the cables are all functioned as they
should and that there really isn't a problem except for a clogged core.
Anyway, I'll keep you filled in...........
----- Original Message -----
From: <quattro-request at audifans.com>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:00 AM
Subject: quattro digest, Vol 1 #4097 - 15 msgs


> Send quattro mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:1990 80q No heat (Huw Powell)
>    2. Torque steer on an 87 5KTQ (Steve Sherman)
>    3. Re:adjustable wastegate cap (DGraber460 at aol.com)
>    4. Re:'86 Type 44 fuel pump replacement (SJ)
>    5. Re:A/S on hubs, bolts, nuts (Roger Mounsey)
>    6. A6 Front Sturts (gkot at adelphia.net)
>    7. Re:adjustable wastegate cap (Marc Swanson)
>    8. Re:4kq instrument panel removal (Marc Swanson)
>    9. Anti-lag devices, pros and cons? (Mihnea Cotet)
>   10. adjustable waste gate cap (Ron Wainwright)
>   11. Re:Wheel Torque (QSHIPQ at aol.com)
>   12. Re:Torque steer on an 87 5KTQ (Martin Pot)
>   13. Re:[s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque
(lenoble at optonline.net)
>   14. Re:adjustable waste gate cap (GMBCHEF at aol.com)
>   15. Re:More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque (EricNMN at aol.com)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:08:50 -0400
> From: Huw Powell <human747 at attbi.com>
> Reply-To: human747 at attbi.com
> Organization: HUMAN Speakers
> To: jason nyby <jnyby71 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: 1990 80q No heat
>
>
> > I am definately not looking forward to looking into this.  But, its 20
de=
> grees here in Maine tonight, and I don't drive so well when I'm shivering.
=
>  I suspect a clogged heater core as well, but someone suggested a stuck
val=
> ve that I haven't been able to locate.  I'm flipping through the Bentley
an=
> d I can't find it in there either.  The valve is supposed to be in the
engi=
> ne compartment I guess, but I don't see it.  I am getting no heat at all,
i=
> ts like the outside air is just venting inside the car.
>
> The heater core on the type 89 (like yours) is "always on".  there is no
> heater valve, what it has is a flap that divides the passenger air
> between outside fresh air (cool) and air that went through the heater
> core (warm).
>
> if one hose is hot and one is cold, odds favor a clog.
>
> try undoing them both carefully at the engine/head ends and running hose
> water through them, both ways.
>
> otherwise, the cable that runs the cold/hot flap might not be
> functioning properly.
>
> You are not going to enjoy going into your dashboard to fix these
> things...
>
> --
> Huw Powell
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/
>
> http://www.humanthoughts.org/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:15:13 -0600
> From: Steve Sherman <spsherm at attglobal.net>
> Reply-To: spsherm at attglobal.net
> To: quattro <quattro at audifans.com>
> Subject: Torque steer on an 87 5KTQ
>
> I have recently noticed, after an alignment while playing with taking my
> hands off the wheel on straight sections of  road, that there is a
> noticable pull to the right while I have the gas pedal down.  The pull
> definitely goes away when my foot comes off the gas pedal.
>
> I am curious if other have noticed this too, and it is just a design
> feature of the car; or if this might be due to something in my front
> differential or possibly a stiff CV joint?
>
> TIA
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: DGraber460 at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:29:59 EDT
> Subject: Re: adjustable wastegate cap
> To: ron_01056 at yahoo.com
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 10/21/2002 3:28:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> ron_01056 at yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > all so the spring from the extra cap I got didn't
> > come with a stock spring it has 2 light green marks on
> > the coils what kind a spring is this someone said it
> > may be a euro spring it feels prity stiff,
> > how can I tell?
> >
>
> I pulled a wastegate from a KH (5kt) motor that had a "green" spring in
it.
> My URQ (WX motor) stock spring had black dots on it.
> The black spring appears slightly thicker than the green one. A caliper
> indeed shows the green unit has a wire diameter of .128", and the black =
> .139".
> HTH
>
> Dennis
> Denver
> "Good judgment is a result of experience, which is often the result of
poor
> judgment"
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:45:46 -0400
> From: SJ <syljay at optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: '86 Type 44 fuel pump replacement
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Cc: james accordino <ssgacc at yahoo.com>
>
> James,
>
> I live in Northern NJ. Not many U-Pull yards here. And none with Audis.
> Where are those junk yards that you go to located? I'll bring my truck,
> wheelbarrow and toolbox . . . . . and we can go "shopping".
>
> SJ
> 88 5kq
> 90 100q
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
> From: james accordino <ssgacc at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: '86 Type 44 fuel pump replacement
> To: Paul Hill <phill at avici.com>
> Cc: audi list <quattro at audifans.com>
>
> At the U-Pull-It yards by me (PA-NJ), they're either
> $5 or $10.  I always try to find parts that have
> recently been replaced.  Occasionally, I'll find
> paperwork in the glovebox indicating certain parts
> were replaced VERY recently.  Usually, it's by looks.
> Filthy, greasy engine bay with 1 or 2 shiny new parts.
>  Often still with the stickers on them.  Got an entire
> set of coolant hoses that way.
>
> Jim Accordino
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: roger-mounsey at webtv.net (Roger Mounsey)
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:33:23 -0400 (EDT)
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re: A/S on hubs, bolts, nuts
>
> I've been using a/s in the NYC area for 2+ years without problems.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: <gkot at adelphia.net>
> To: "Quattro Digest" <quattro at audifans.com>
> Subject: A6 Front Sturts
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:04:03 -0400
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I just purchased a 1997 A6 with 143,000 miles.  Other than needing new
brak=
> es/rotors all around, and lower control arm bushings, the car is in
excepti=
> onal condition.  I was pleasantly surprised to see the cost of rotors has
c=
> ome down for the newer models in that they are now cheaper than the pagid
p=
> ads.  I believe the front struts use a gas version as original equipment,
b=
> ut they still seem to be ok.  Has anyone had to replace the front struts
on=
>  a 1992 100 or later A6 and at what mileage did they go bad.  Dealer tell
m=
> e they just don't go bad.  I am getting a little noise from the front end
w=
> hen I turn the wheel at slower speed if turn the wheel and hope the new
low=
> er control arm bushing will solve the problem.  If not, I may have to take
=
> another look at the struts.
>
> George Kotjarapoglus
> gkot at adelphia.net
> --
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Subject: Re: adjustable wastegate cap
> From: Marc Swanson <mswanson at sonitrol.net>
> To: Ron Wainwright <ron_01056 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:34:53 -0400
>
> >   One question,
> >  after looking at a few write ups on adjusting the
> > waste gate cap each write up states that there should
> > be an allen bolt to keep the perch on the cap tight,
> >  but the extra waste gate cap I got doesn't have an
> > allen bolt it just kind a has the perch fixed to the
> > cap and when the spring perch is forced off there's a
> > threaded rod present kind a looks like the oil plug I
> > have in the car has a little section of bolt that
> > isn't threaded thats skinnier than the threaded part
> > at the bottom.
> > Part # on the cap is 035 145 725 A and it saies
> > Austria before the #'s,
> >  all so the spring from the extra cap I got didn't
> > come with a stock spring it has 2 light green marks on
> > the coils what kind a spring is this someone said it
> > may be a euro spring it feels prity stiff,
> >  how can I tell?
>
>
> Not sure about the lack of allen bolt on the top, mine had one..
> The basic idea is you want to get a bolt through the top of the cap that
> will allow you to push down on the perch and increase the preload on the
> spring.
>
> As far as the green spring goes I've seen two different springs:  one
> with blue markings and relatively light spring rate which came out of an
> MC, and a black marked spring that came out of a WX which felt much
> stiffer and looked slightly bigger.  I wouldn't be surprised if there
> was several other variations out there..
>
>
> Later
>
> --
> ----------------------------------
> Marc Swanson, Software Engineer
> Sonitrol Communications Corp.
> Hartford, CT
>
> Email: mswanson at sonitrol.net
> Phone: (860) 616-7036
> Pager: (860) 948-6713
>  Cell: (603) 512-1267
>   Fax: (860) 616-7589
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Subject: Re: 4kq instrument panel removal
> From: Marc Swanson <mswanson at sonitrol.net>
> To: Roger Mounsey <roger-mounsey at webtv.net>
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Date: 22 Oct 2002 08:46:11 -0400
>
> > I've finally worked up the courage to remove the instrument panel (to
> > deal with a non-functional fuel gauge) & was wondering if anyone could
> > offer tips for light/connection/ etc disconnection, & especially for
> > light switch removal, which many seem to break?
>
> Basic procedure (going from memory here):
> -two screws into the bottom side of the top of the bezel that holds the
> switches
> -two screws into the black rubbery cover on the bottom outside edges of
> the switch bezel.  bend the "flaps" on this cover away from the bezel,
> then pull outward to get the cover out from the two round guides behind
> the IC (Instrument Cluster).
> -disconnect wiring harnesses from switches.  If you need to take the
> light switch out of the bezel be _very_ carefull.  It is typically
> brittle from age and will crack if you are not carefull.
> -two screws on either side of the IC, securing it to the dash (carefull,
> these plastic tabs like to break!)
> -disconnect the speedo cable by twisting the connector.. much like a BNC
> style connector.
> -disconnect the wiring harnesses on the back of the IC, there will be
> two main ones, then one for the trip computer (if you have one), and a
> light bulb socket for the seat belt warning light that you have to twist
> to remove.  After that, you should be able to remove the IC from the
> car.
>
> If you just need to adjust the fuel gauge there is a little bar like
> adjustment as I recall, accessible through the right hand side by
> removing the black plastic cover that goes in the rubber bezel covering
> the IC.  No need to remove all of the above if all it needs is an
> adjustment.
>
>
> Hope that helps!
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------
> Marc Swanson, Software Engineer
> Sonitrol Communications Corp.
> Hartford, CT
>
> Email: mswanson at sonitrol.net
> Phone: (860) 616-7036
> Pager: (860) 948-6713
>  Cell: (603) 512-1267
>   Fax: (860) 616-7589
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:28:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mihnea Cotet <c_mihnea at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: mik at info.fundp.ac.be
> Subject: Anti-lag devices, pros and cons?
> To: quattro at audifans.com, 200q20v at audifans.com
>
> Title says it all, what are the pros and cons
> (especially the cons) for anti-lag systems? Increased
> turbo wear? Worse fuel economy? I saw this in an
> article about the Peugeot 206 WRC car that puts out
> 300+ HP and 650 Nm of torque at 3550 RPM and it uses
> an anti-lag system that seems to work pretty well, so
> I thought "why not?"...
>
> Any valuable BTDT or more specific info is welcome!
>
>
> Mihnea
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:41:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ron Wainwright <ron_01056 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: adjustable waste gate cap
> To: quattro at audifans.com
>
>   Listers,
>
>   I thank you guy's for the info on the adjustable cap
> but what I can't figure out is the cap I have,
>  it's not like others described it!
>  it has NO allen bolt under the cap the spring perch
> just sits on the bolt that comes from the cap it's
> threaded but the end of the bolt is skinnier than the
> bolt and has no threads(about a 1/4 inch) and there's
> no way to move it. I tried with vice grips, banging on
> it to try and loosen it, the bolt won't move doesn't
> look like there was an allen bolt head there the end
> of the bolt looks to clean to have been messed with.
>  Does anyone have a proper cap they'd be willing to
> part with?
> Thanks
> Ron
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: QSHIPQ at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:49:35 EDT
> Subject: Re: Wheel Torque
> To: b.m.benz at prodigy.net
> Cc: 200q20v at audifans.com, s-car-list at audifans.com,
> quattro at audifans.com, urq at audifans.com, v8 at audifans.com
>
> Berme:
> Comments inserted
> In a message dated 10/22/02 12:35:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
> b.m.benz at prodigy.net writes:
>
>
> >Ah, come on Scott!  You must be kidding!  Your torque wrench knows if it
is
> >torquing a lubed or dry bolt and thus reads differently because?  BS!
> >If your wrench reads 100 '#, its 100'# applied to a wet noodle or a head
> >strong bolt.  Too much KY on hand, Scott?
>
> Bernie, maybe you ought to take some time to look thru some of the
available
> material - there is a lot.  My wrench isn't the issue, the bolt/nut and
the
> wheel are.  If you increased the clamping force (an earlier claim) that
can
> cause bolt stretch, stud stretch, wheel cracking, and failure of
> fastener/wheel.  Think of it as tensile strength.  You can increase it
either
> by lubricating or torque up to a point, the consequenses of the unknown
> "beyond" is the problem.  The reason for wet torque specifications and dry
> torque specifications.  A wheel bolt is a dry torque specification.
>
> >> "since the "backing" out isn't necessarily a A/S problem."
> >Up to this point no one has proposed that the root problem is the backing
> >out of the bolts, at least not before the clamping force has been reduced
to
> >zero by another active mechanism, creep of the aluminum wheel material.
> >Don't go out on this limb, Scott, until you have scribed a felt marker
line
> >across the bolt head and wheel, such that you can check for bolt unwind
> >rotation just before you have to retorque.
>
> Well, I just don't see how all my bolts fell off without the obvious.  I
> don't need a scribe.  They didn't break, the threads were intact, the
bolts
> were found within 20 feet of each other, and the wheel fell off.  The
scribe
> seems kinda...   moot?
>
> I spent a lot of time researching this since last week.  Right now, I
can't
> find ANY wheel or car manufacturer that recommends the use of ANY
lubricant
> on lug/wheel bolts.  Several TSB's (in a plethora of vehicle industries)
have
> been issued regarding the specific procedure of making sure threads are
clean
> and nick free, and expressly stating that *no* lubricant should be used on
> the threads and/or (especially) the land area of the nut/bolt.  Ford seems
to
> have the highest number of "issues" with wheel bolts, including a recall
on
> excursions for backing out problems, and a specific TSB (a ford focus TSB)
on
> the use of lubricants/coatings on the land area of the bolt.
>
> I'm waiting on some of the more nerdy publications to come in, and I'll
file
> a better summary.  Right now, the documentation seems to support the
summary
> that those that are using any flavor of lubricant on wheel bolts *don't*
> appear to be in the mainstream consensus, and are overtorquing wheels by
> definition.
>
> Personal experiences aside, this procedure of applying A/S appears to have
> some bigger antichrists.  WRT racing, I'll chuckle some at the claims of
some
> unknown "pro instructor".   E Fittipaldi (hopefully not with his own
brand)
> not only lost a wheel bolt, it cost him a DNF (shot into the trans sump).
> Audisport even lost a couple in the rally days.  The documentation of
> wheel/wheel bolt failures in racing is pretty high.  in fact, regular
> inspections of wheels for stress cracking is commonplace, and several
> companies (in a town near you) offer this certification service.   Many
> sanctioning bodies actually have rules for wheel re/certification.
>
> ALL Wheels/bolts/nuts/studs have a service life.  In normal driving this
can
> exceed the life of the cars mileage several fold.  In extreme environments
> (including even marque track events), that service life decreases
> exponentially.
>
> Thanks for the input Bernie.  I agree, and the documentation supports your
> contention that wheel flex and distortion are probably the cause for my
> wheel/bolt loss.  Since that initial statement, you are straying further
from
> the mainstream consensus on the subject of wheel/bolt.  My "clean,
> inspect/replace and (re)torque" (CIRT) recommendation IS the mainstream,
> period.
>
> If you aren't going to routinely CIRT, then it's all up for grabs.  A
> lubricated bolt might be better than a galled, pitted, dirty install - I
> won't speculate on that.  But that (lubricated) wet torque changes other
> variables in the mix, since an overtorqued wheel is in an extreme
environment
> by defintion.
>
> HTH
>
> Scott Justusson
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: "Martin Pot" <paulnet at direcway.com>
> To: <quattro at audifans.com>
> Subject: Re: Torque steer on an 87 5KTQ
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:49:58 -0500
>
> I have had the same problem but worse, the car would pull to left with gas
> down, and pull to right with gas up. This caused for some real dangerous
> driving. I found out that it was caused by  worn out, upper strut mounts.
> Very easy and inexpensive to replace and you should definitely check them.
> These cars do drive very true and straight when suspension and steering is
> within specs.
> Martin
> 91' 2CTQW PRL   '86 5KTQ PRL   91' 2CTQ Maroon  All cars chipped
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Sherman" <spsherm at attglobal.net>
> To: "quattro" <quattro at audifans.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 12:15 AM
> Subject: Torque steer on an 87 5KTQ
>
>
> > I have recently noticed, after an alignment while playing with taking my
> > hands off the wheel on straight sections of  road, that there is a
> > noticable pull to the right while I have the gas pedal down.  The pull
> > definitely goes away when my foot comes off the gas pedal.
> >
> > I am curious if other have noticed this too, and it is just a design
> > feature of the car; or if this might be due to something in my front
> > differential or possibly a stiff CV joint?
> >
> > TIA
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Reply-To: lenoble at optonline.net
> From: "lenoble at optonline.net" <lenoble at optonline.net>
> To: qshipq at aol.com, lenoble at optonline.net, urq at audifans.com,
> quattro at audifans.com, s-car-list at audifans.com, v8 at audifans.com,
> 200q20v at audifans.com, audi20v at rennlist.org
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:52:39 -0400
>
>
> Hello,
>
> > Even if you decide to use A/S, retorquing of the wheels should
> > be a standard procedure, since the "backing" out isn't
> > necessarily a A/S problem.
>
> Yes, good point. I used to check my wheel periodically through-
> out an event. Now I just check them each morning before I get
> on the track.
>
> I've been doing some more thinking about your loosening problem,
> and something is really strange. I do about 10-15 track days
> a year (all with PCA) and I see thousands of cars on the track
> each year. Each car must go through a track side tech inspection
> held the morning of the event, and one of the tests is wheel
> bolt torque. Very few people ever bother to check the wheels
> again, and I haven't seen a wheel fall off in a long time.
> Now, the more advanced drivers and the racers probably do check
> things closely (I know the serious folks do) but there are
> still many MANY novices and intermediates who don't.
>
> Barry
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: GMBCHEF at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:11:19 EDT
> Subject: Re: adjustable waste gate cap
> To: ron_01056 at yahoo.com, quattro at audifans.com
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>  Hey Ron.
>  On my urq the allen head is on the top of the wastegate and I can screw
it
> in or back it off to get more or less pressure on the spring. On the spare
> cap I have from a 5ktq, there is what looks like a seal there in the
center
> of the top side of the cap to keep you out of that allen head. I've read
that
> you may have to drill that seal out to get to the allen head, then apply
heat
> to melt the loc-tite in order to be able to turn it.
>  That's what it looks like what was dome to my urq cap.
> HTH
> Gary
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:40:50 -0400
> From: EricNMN at aol.com
> To: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: Re:More on audi wheel bolts/studs/torque
>
> An Engineering textbook perspective:
>
> The reason torque is applied is to apply load to the bolt (preload) during
=
> a non-loaded condition.  This results in a stronger connection when loads
a=
> re applied.  Torquing also makes the threaded connection less likely to
bac=
> k off on its own (vibration, etc).
>
> The recommended preload for re-used joints is 75% of the "Proof Strength".
=
>  Proof Strength is the maximum load a bolt can encounter without acquiring
=
> a permanent set.
>
> A (perhaps) useful equation:  T=3DKFd
>
> T - Torque   (applied at the wheel nut/lug)
> K - "Torque Factor" which is dependent upon the bolt condition
> F - Preload Force
> d - diameter of bolt
>
> Torque Factor is .12 with Bowman anti-sieze, .18 if lubricated, .20 if
zinc=
>  plated and .30 for nonplated black finish.
>
> A few more words of wisdom: "...for heavy-hex structural bolts, the
turn-of=
> -the-nut specification states that the nut should be turned a minimum of
18=
> 0 degrees from snug tight... this is also about the correct rotation for
th=
> e wheel nuts of a passenger car."  Also stated: "Above all, do not rely
too=
>  much on wrench torque.  It is NOT a good indicator of preload.  Actual
bol=
> t elongation should be used whenever possible"
>
> What does this mean?
>
> Our true intent is to apply force on the bolt.  The easies way to measure
t=
> he amount of force is the torque applied to the nut.
>
> Larger diameter bolts need more torque to have the same holding power.
>
> Bolts of different strengths (they can vary tremendously at your hardware
s=
> tore - but are fairly uniform for wheel nuts/bolts/studs) require
different=
>  torque values.
>
> Bolts with lubricant or anti-sieze should receive LESS torque to achieve
th=
> e same amount of preload.
>
> If you apply antisieze or lubricant and apply the amount of torque
appropri=
> ate for a bolt with nonplated black finish, you could damage your bolts,
nu=
> ts, threaded hole or studs.
>
> If you apply too much force on your bolts, they will stretch permanently.
=
> They may not fit as well next time.  Or, you might not be able to get them
=
> out.
>
> In a perfect world, we'd like to measure bolt elongation.  But, nut torque
=
> is our best option.
>
> Eric Schumacher
> 96 A4 V6 Q
>
>
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>