ncap = crap

[Dave Eaton]

happy that you claim the attribution of an "engineer" scott.  interesting
that you do, because i was quoting a senior honda safety engineer (a real
one).  honda btw regularly crash different types of vehicles into each
other, as was observed by the journo in the piece - as i'm sure do most
other manufacturers.

if you re-read what i said, it is in fact *because* of the mass of larger
vehicles that they struggle to get 5-stars (an "engineer" would know this).
and it is *because* of the mass of large vehicles, that the engineers have
to make them stiff to get the ncap stars.  and it is this "stiffness" that
causes the trouble with impacts involving smaller vehicles - which was the
point of the concern expressed by the aforementioned safety engineer.

dave
'95 rs2
'90 ur-q
'95 s6

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:32:36 EDT
To: quattro at audifans.com
Subject:  ncap

I don't agree with your summary dave, few engineers would.  The BIGGEST
difference to crash survival is MASS.  The stiffness of the larger vehicles
isn't for the testing, it's for the weight/design of the vehicle vs
occupants
of that vehicle.  The occupants of the "other" vehicle really aren't a
design
parameter (well the rear crash bar on the 18 wheelers might be an
exception),
too many variables to figure that out.  In house testing usually assumes two
identical vehicles.  The "independent" lab tests that do the tests for
public
consumption is a vehicle and a wall, not another vehicle.  Doing tests with
2
different vehicles would create fear in a lot of folks, and we'd all be
driving Excursions.

The offset test isn't really the *main* focus of engineers.  Statistically,
replicating that scenario in real world is a tough argument to make.  The
head on is a different story, and many a engineer has had toyota trucks in
the war room (they do really well).  I also remember too, on a in-law visit
to Auburn Hills, a laser diced A4 at D-Chrysler.


Scott J


D. Eaton writes:
however, due to the ncap insistence on only 2 tests (offset and side), and
the public's addiction to the "star" scoring system, they virtually obligate
engineers to build cars focused on the magic 5-star metric, at the penalty
of other, arguably more important, safety measures.  for instance, the
heavier the vehicle, the more difficult it is to get good ratings on the
offset test, so engineers are increasingly making their large vehicles very
"stiff" to get the good scores.  this is causing considerable concern
because, in an impact with a lighter vehicle, this will almost certainly
result in greater chance of injury in the other vehicle, where a "softer"
impact structure wouldn't..