5000/100/200 Brakes [was Weird brake thing 200 Turbo 1989]

[Ben Swann]

Agreed, with Scott below.  And to refund the difference between what it
really would have cost.  Even at inflated/marked up prices and a high
$80/hour labor rate, I don't think the job should have costed more than
$500.

The job should have entailed:
Replace Master Cylinder - 1 hour + $250 for MC(inflated price)
Completely Flush Brake system with power bleeder - 2 hours + $20 fluid - on
a bad day.

I have done this and generally take twice as long as a pro, since I am home
mechanic.  The Job should take no longer than 3 Hours.

Regarding the problem, it is exacerbated by heat, hot days, driving in
stop&go traffic especially wih AC on.  If ignored, will result in
toasted/warped rotors and possibly locking up in traffic.  The problem is a
twofold combination - old brake fluid, which hygroscopic in nature has done
a fair share of absorbing moisture + a failing master cylinder(usually due
to old fluid), which when hot likes to stick in such a way that it
continues to apply pressure to the slaves even when foot is off pedal.
 This is my guess anyway, which has proved out in my experience.

Again, I have seen this on '87 5000 CS TQ Avant at 140Kmi (still own),  '
86 CS TQ Sedan ~160Kmi (owned and sold),  '89 100Q >200Kmi (Owned but
serviced after selling)  - problem crept up then.  I did not have the
problem on the '87 '5K CS TQ Avant I just sold, probably since the MC had
already been replaced prior to 135Kmi.

This should be a FAQ thing.  Anyone car to add - I just don't have the time
right now.

Regards,

Ben

[Tell the $1400 shop to fix their mistake.
Although there is no guarantee they can handle the job as history has shown
you.

Is there a brake line or component near some high heat source?
Heat will boil or (in early stages) expand the fluid to cause the brakes to
drag or increase their braking bite regardless of brake pedal use.
Think I heard something like this before........
HTH - Scott in BOSTON]

On Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:44 PM, susana martinez
[SMTP:nanayceci at hotmail.com] wrote:
> Ben,
> Thanks a lot for your help, I really appreciate your help with this. Your
> experience has saved me another bunch of bucks so I am truly grateful.
About
> these guys...hope the Better Business Bureau does his thing. Thanks
again!
> Ceci
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Ben Swann <bswann at worldnet.att.net>
> Reply-To: "bswann at worldnet.att.net" <bswann at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'nanayceci at hotmail.com'" <nanayceci at hotmail.com>
> CC: "'quattro at audifans.com'" <quattro at audifans.com>
> Subject: RE. Help - Brake complicated problem
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:02:54 -0400
>
> Ceci,
>
> I burns me to hear this.  I think you got ripped off.  Period.
>
> The car simply needed a new master cylinder and a brake system bleed.  At
> least that has been my experience with 3 out of 4 of these Type 44 cars I
> have owned/fixed up and serviced in 3 years.  This is a very common
problem
> with these cars.
>
> I don't know what recourse you have, but this shop did service that the
car
> didn't need, and didn't address the real problem.
>
> Too bad you didn't query this list first.
>
> Ben
>
> [Hello guys
> Got a '89 200 Turbo and when I'm driving about 30 to 50 miles I got this
> problem: My steering wheel begins shaking badly, at the same time brake
> pedal gets stiff, later pedal begins to go to floor and at the end you
have
> no brakes, the car starts braking itself. You let it getI took it to a
shop
> (an expensive import service) and got out with a $1400 bill, a new brake
> accumulator,hoses and pentosin (according to them it was a leaking
> problem),
> but I never saw any loss of fluid not even when the car had no brakes. I
> pay, take the car out of the shop and I got exactly the same problem 30
> miles after. The guy in the shop says that the solution now must be that
> the
> front calipers are sticking ,the brake fluid boils and that the car needs
> both front calipers (girling, double piston). I check other shop and the
> guy
> says there may be the calipers but that he's never heard of the two
> calipers
> going wrong at the same time, and that the stiff pedal story does not
match
> with a caliper failure. He suspects a brake master cylinder instead.
> Sorry for writing such long mail but I'd appreciate if anyone has ever
> heard
> of something like this before.
> Ceci Cerdan
> Kentucky]