5ktq CIS problems still...

Tue Jul 22 17:32:18 EDT 2003

High or low pressure depends on if you measure before or after an
obstruction, and the flow rate.

If the accumulator were clogged, then measuring at the fuel pump (before the
obstruction) would show high pressure no matter what the flow.  Measuring at
the fuel filter or before the fuel distributor (after the obstruction) would
show lower pressure as flow increased.

I would do a flow test per Bentley, where you take the flow after the fuel
distributor, as fuel heads back to the tank, using the return line next to
the fuel filter.  I forget the spec, I can look it up if you need it, but
mine (and others) flowed close to double the requirement in the Bentley.  I
would say that flow (volume/time) at the Bentley spec level is low flow and
bears further looking into.

You could bypass the fuel accumulator if you have some fittings -- it only
really helps with starting, but has little short term effect on running.  In
the long term it helps to smooth out flow and pressure spikes, much like
those water anti-knock thingies plumbed near a washing machine.  That's one
reason it's near the pump.

Best,

Bernard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Forbes [mailto:John at craincorporated.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:07 PM
> To: Bernard Littau
> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> Subject: RE: 5ktq CIS problems still...
>
> I havent done an official flow test, but when I drained the tank (by
> pumping it out) it filled a 5 gallon container in no time flat. When I
> move the airflow plate the pressure stays solid at 4bar, never drops at
> all, but book spec is 5.something -6.8bar.
>
>
> I went under the car to check the accumulator and only found a ball of
> rust. I took it off and ordered a new one, but I gota wait until tomorrow
> morning. One thing though, if the accumulator was clogged wouldnt I get
> too high of a pressure rather then too low? None of the lines are hurt
> either.
>
> -Cody
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Bernard Littau" <bernardl at acumenassociates.com>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:24:34 -0700
>
> >Hi John,
> >
> >Sounds like your fuel _flow_ is a problem.  Have you done the fuel flow
> >test?
> >
> >I realize that with a new fuel filter and a replaced fuel pump you have
> >already addressed the two most likely reasons for poor flow.  Still, it
> >sounds to me like the pressure is dropping as the flow increases, to the
> >point where some of the injectors shut down.  They are supposed to do
> that
> >to maintain pressure when the car is off.
> >
> >You may want to inspect your fuel line from the filter back to the pump
> and
> >see if there are any imperfections; perhaps the line is crushed
> somewhere.
> >The fuel accumulator is also outside of and under the car near the right
> >rear wheel.  Perhaps it is clogged.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Bernard Littau
> >Woodinville, WA
> >'88 5ktq
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Forbes [mailto:John at craincorporated.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:57 AM
> >> To: Bernard Littau
> >> Cc: quattro at audifans.com
> >> Subject: RE: 5ktq CIS problems still...
> >>
> >> Isn't CIS a problem in itself ;-) ? Well it goes like this. I bought
> the
> >> car over the net, from a couple in Nebraska. Original owners, wifes car
> >> (nice to know it wasn't beat too bad), husband did regular maintenence.
> >> They said it ran great, and they seem pretty honest about the whole
> deal,
> >> were more then willing to tell me everything that wasn't right on the
> car
> >> as much as whatever was good.
> >>
> >> >From the minute it got here it has had a problem with runability. It
> >> seemed that anytime you open the throttle enough to get to about .9bar
> it
> >> would drop to maybe 3 cylinders. I called the people I bought it from
> they
> >> said it had been sitting a little while, so I figured bad gas. I pumped
> >> out the tank and changed the filter, got some water in the old filter
> too.
> >> But it didn't fix. So I put the fuel pressure gauges on it and got
> about
> >> 4bar. Thought this was low but was unsure so I pulled the injectors and
> >> lifted the airflow plate, got good flow at low positions, but as I
> raised
> >> it some injectors would stop firing. This is where I'm stuck.
> >>
> >> I started by swapping to another fuel dist. that came off a running
> car,
> >> and that didn't help any. Then I noticed that it wasn't keeping the
> >> controll pressure low when it first turned on, so I changed the warmup
> >> regulator. That didn't help, but then I noticed that every time I would
> go
> >> to work on the car I had a little bit less fuel pressure. I started by
> >> double shimming the piston spring in the fuel dist., which got me up to
> a
> >> good clean 6.4bar, but again it started losing pressure. I went to
> change
> >> the pump and got a good surprise as the car had been "upgraded" to the
> 200
> >> 40mm pump, which is $50 more expensive then a $200 60mm 5000 pump. I
> had a
> >> 60mm pump here so I retrofitted it back to the older pump, and still
> only
> >> have arround 4 bar of pressure. Also all 5 injectors flow fine on my
> test
> >> bench, but for good luck I even bought 1 new one and put it on. I had
> >> basically given up on it and just decided to park the car until my new
> >> injectors and rail stock get here so I can c!
> >>  onvert it to EFI like my last 5k, but I am supposed to go to a wedding
> >> this weekend and thats my only "running" car that I can take.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Cody
> >> '86 5ktq - Still having CIS problems
> >> '88 80 4cyl
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >> From: "Bernard Littau" <bernardl at acumenassociates.com>
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:52:01 -0700
> >>
> >> >Hi John,
> >> >
> >> >I've been a bit sporadic following the list lately.  What kind of CIS
> >> >problems are you having wit your 5ktq?
> >> >
> >> >Bernard Littau
> >> >Woodinville, WA
> >> >'88 5ktq
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: quattro-admin at audifans.com [mailto:quattro-admin at audifans.com]
> On
> >> >> Behalf Of John Forbes
> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 4:27 PM
> >> >> To: quattro at audifans.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: was: brit gp now: people on track
> >> >>
> >> >> I have a video called "Secrets of Speed". Its from the early '90s.
> The
> >> >> beginning is a bit messed up because the tape wasn't stored well,
> but
> >> >> theres
> >> >> no cars on the Autobahn that I've seen. It does however have GREAT
> >> footage
> >> >> of the type 44 at Talledega, the Trans Am cars, and the IMSA cars.
> Also
> >> >> some
> >> >> really great interviews with Hans Stuck. Actually now that I
> remember
> >> the
> >> >> beginning even has rally footage, including Pikes Peak, and that
> >> section
> >> >> is
> >> >> full of interviews with Michelle Mouton. Good stuff. I wish I had
> the
> >> >> equipment to digitise it and post it on my server for whoever to
> see.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Cody
> >> >> '87 5ktq - Still having CIS trouble
> >> >> '88 80 4cyl
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >> > > From: james accordino <ssgacc at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > > Subject: was: brit gp now: people on track
> >> >> > > To: Wylie Bean <TheRingmeister at triad.rr.com>,
> quattro at audifans.com
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > That guy has serious issues.  Does anyone remember a
> >> >> > > video of 3? track guys trying to cross the main
> >> >> > > straight at Malaysia?  As cars approach at 200+ mph?
> >> >> > > 3rd person doesn't quite make it and becomes about 3'
> >> >> > > taller as he flies through the air.  Gruesome stuff.
> >> >> > > Also, what's the video with Audi on the autobahn
> >> >> > > driving really fast from late 80's to mid 90's?  I
> >> >> > > think I saw it on Speed.  "Secrets of Speed"?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Jim Accordino
> >> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >