better rear brakes

[Brett Dikeman]

At 5:04 PM +0000 5/21/03, no1of consequence wrote:
>WHOA, Nellie! sorry for trying to help a bruther out!

Bad advice doesn't help anyone.  You never even considered that his
brake system might not be fully functional, but you were happy to
recommend all manner of aftermarket products, most of which have
questionable benefits.  That's bad advice, plain and simple, my
friend.  The lister who suggested confirming proper hydraulic
pressure reservoir operation offered far better advice.

>>That's probably because your proportioning valve wasn't working(or
>>adjusted properly.)  They freeze up all the time.  Going to bigger
>>brakes in back will make the problem seem smaller, but you're
>>fixing a symptom, not the problem.
>
>
>anythings possible. i actually had the brakes pressure tested when
>my mecahnic got a cool new tool jsut for that purpose. i suspected
>my rear load-compensating bias doohickey was off because my rear
>brakes were showing very little pad dust.

Well, you don't need to "suspect" anything, nor do you need fancy
tools.  You just see if the lever can move freely, and check the
adjustment.  You can even clamp the thing completely wide open and
see if there's a difference.  If not, the valve's busted internally
and you need a new one.

>you know, theres are sereral equally sound-sounding arguments for
>drilled/slotted rotors that i have run through

Only folks I've heard argue for drilled/slotted rotors are either
people who don't do more than street driving, or those who are
selling 'em.  Rarely in street driving do you get pads so hot that
you need the slots/holes.

Ask the age-old acid test.  "If slots/holes are so good, why is there
only one automotive manufacturer who uses them?"(Porsche.)

>i used drileld rotors on the 5thou for about 2 years altogether, and
>they wre great. didnt break, crack, eat pads at an alarming rate,
>nuthin. and i drove this big heavy car very hard for 2 years rather
>abusively.


A 5000 is far from a "big heavy car" these days, nor are they
tremendously powered at 165-ish hp tops unmodified.  They weigh under
3000lb if I'm not mistaken- featherweight compared to almost every
Audi model made in the last 10 years.  My 200q20v is -several-
hundred pounds heavier than your 5000, but only 30lb more than an S4,
and several hundred pounds(at least) lighter than an A8.


>  one big sell point was that because they were anodized, they
>actually stayed nice and shiny and didnt get all rusty. i will def.
>use them on my next car.

I don't give a hoot about how shiny they are, since, among other
things, you can barely see 'em anyway(in fact, you cannot see them on
the fronts.)  Besides, after a couple of stops, they'll look nice and
shiny again.

Anodizing seems pretty silly for the pad contact surface, since the
anodizing will last all of ten miles.  It will, however, keep the
vented channels clear of rust.  Makes sense, I suppose.  I just used
a little high-temp ceramic paint from Autozone for $3, sprayed a
little inside the vents and other non-braking-surface areas.


>>I've seen the evidence first-hand; a qclub instructor tried all
>>sorts of things on his 90q20v, including slotted rotors and drilled
>>rotors. They came off the car looking like a disaster- stress
>>cracks, slots full of brake pad material+rust...you know what he
>>did?  Did the G60 upgrade(I believe) and solid rotors.
>>
>
>was he racing it? or just street driving it?

The qclub doesn't race.  I'm talking high-speed driver education
events.  Top speeds can be(depending upon car, driver) triple digits
and braking can be from triple digit speeds to 40, 50 mph.


>this is another argument i want to believe, and really sounds super,
>but when i asked all over the place NOONE ever had, or knew of, a ss
>brake line bursting.

Ask people who race or have been doing track driving for a long time.
Ask race shops(that don't sell aftermarket parts.)  Ask "I have a
street car, I don't do any on-track driving, not even driver
education events.  Should I use stainless steel lines?"

The majority of answers will be along the lines of: "No.  They're not
appropriate for street use."  The things they say will ring a number
of bells.


>>>mintex pads
>>
>>Can't comment on aftermarket pads, only to say I'm quite happy with
>>my stock(ATE?) pads on my UFO-equipped 200q20v.  I have heard the
>>mintex name frequently- I think someone on the 200q20v list runs
>>them on his G60-equipped 200q20v when he does track events.
>>
>
>dude, ate pads SUCK worse than anything on earth.

Sorry, that's not what people who sell pads tell me.  Further, if the
"suck worse than anything on earth", why are they stock on a LOT of
ver expensive cars?  You've been hanging around with boy-racers too
much; it's a crowd continuously convinced that their car's
manufacturer shafted them on the quality of absolutely everything,
blessed with the supreme arrogance to think they know better than
teams of engineers, and as a result make their cars handle and
perform worse than stock.

   Any time someone has to say "suck", it's because they don't have
any legitimate reasons- ie, they don't know what they're talking
about.  Come back to me with numbers, not "the performance is CRAP".
Come back to me with compound names and manufacturers, not "they suck
worse than anything on earth".


>  they make a MESS out of wheels in about 12 minutes. the performance
>is CRAP compared to a decent set of agressive street pads, and they
>dont make any dust! id gladly change them 3 times more often and get
>no improvement in braking or pedal feel to not have to spend 2 hours
>every saturday with a toothbrush in my bbs's to keep them from
>looking like they got caught in a flamethrower [black+sooty]. do
>yourself a favor and get a good set of pads. your rotors and your
>detailer will thank you.

Well, i was running some nice open wheels in the summer that were a
breeze to clean, until two bent- last time I do 17" wheels, that's
for sure- just not appropriate for NE.  With a durable wax, intact
finish, and proper cleaning schedule using good wheel cleaner, brake
dust is easily dealt with.  Most stock BBS rims are impossible to
keep clean because the finish is totally trashed- mine included...and
few people bother to wax them, or clean them often enough.

Further- my rotors cost a fortune, and my calipers use an unusually
large, hard to find pad- it's expensive to get different pad
compounds, sometimes you even need to send in a set of old backing
plates.  Some places don't stock the right pad, nor will they apply
their compound to a user-provided set of plates.

   I don't want grabby pads(take a driver education event with the
club, you'll understand why), I don't want pads that will chew my
rotors to pieces since they cost $200+ each, I don't want pads that
perform worse than stock when wet or cold...the list goes on.  Few
pads come out on top after that list of conditions, and I have
neither the time, interest, or wallet to set about trying to find
them.  I attend driver education events so infrequently that
non-street pads make no sense; further, I'm there to learn how to
drive my car to make me a better driver on the street.  If I'm not
using the same pads, I'm not learning with the same equipment I'd be
using in the real world.  Hence- pointless.

Brett
--
----
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~brett/