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layout, or it is simply deteriorated from age and neglect, and you may have
some fun putting it all back again.

>> Yes, I would not doubt if there has been some tweaking done before I got
involved... However till last Wednesday this car was called "The unstoppable
Audi". Partly because the brakes used to not work, but also because the
drivetrain was bulletproof. What I am saying is that the car ran fine till
suddenly at a light *PUFF* *PUFF* *DEAD*.


Once you get things sorted, this car
will run quite nicely, and will be easy to keep it that way.

>> Man I hope so. Im in a real bad spot right now. Money was short to start
with. Timing belt skipped on my Mitsu (new engine time) and now this... I
was already looking at $400 beaters online... I cannot belive this car let
me down...

1) Check for vaccum diagram on the hood, and reconstruct all vacuum
routing.

>> I have a manual for the car and I have the sticker under the hood. Nether
show where all of the lines go. I can hook up what is on the sticker since
it does not seem to be causing the problem, but I will still have a ton a
vac lines left over. Including some stuff that goes into my passenger side
fender!!

There are not many lines I can think of that don't serve some key
purpose, so ports should not be blocked off.

>>Im sure that until I can get it working the car can live without the PCV
:) The intake side is blocked, for now the crank case is venting to
atmosphere.

It is not that complicated
once you dealve into it.  A clean motor helps sort out what may at first
appear to be spaghetti.

>>Agreed. I just wish to know where all of these lines are supposed to go
to.

2)  Get yourself a proper Bentley service manual,  at least a Haynes.

>> I have a Haynes and it will be burned in a big camp fire soon as I get
this figured out. There is NOTHING on CIS-E in there, period! I hear the
Bentley is good but nobody around here has it...

3)  Don't take the fuel distributor apart, not yet anyway.  The fuel
pressure is far more than adequate, and may even be too high, but not
likely a problem.

>>Too late. Already torn apart, sprayed out with B12 and put back together.
I also think that high pressure may be the problem. I read online that this
can bind the distributor plunger and cause to get stuck.

4) Air-flow sensor plate under the giant waffle hose thoroughly and install
new air filter.  Make sure plate lifts freely and does not bind - it needs
to be centered, and you will probably find grit and crud in there which
causes a great "ah hah!".   Also, clean the throttle body while waffle hose
is off..  Reattach all vac. hoses, and larger hoses.

>> plate moves freely and looks centered. It was full of grime but that got
cleaned off Thursday.

5)  Clean the CIS-E fuel pressure regulator which is mounted by two screws
on front of the fuel ditributor.  Remove the screws, and clean surface with
carb cleaner, o-rings are probably pretty grimy - replace if needed with $7
kit from dealer.

>> surpizingly it was pretty clean in there. O-rings seemed to be ok.
Sprayed B12 in there anyway.

If real bad, you may need to disassemble regulator and
clean inside, but start by removing and cleaning mating surface outside
just to see if it helps running.

>>How do you disassemble it?!

6) I have found the Themo-sender which is screwed in the bottom of the
coolant neck to cause the type of problem you are describing.  That would
be after everything else is tight however, and it sounds like you are a
long way off from trying this as prime suspect.

>> If anything, shouldnt that make me run rich? I think I am running lean...
Plugs are nice and dry when engine dies...

7) Pull fuel injectors and check spray pattern and replace o-rings.  This
BTW is a good item to start with to make sure you are actually getting fuel
properly sprayed into the engine.

>>Now that I think I know how the injectors come out, I will give that a
shot first thing in the morning. I wanted to do it before but could not
break them lose.

To do this, jump the fuel pump relay
socket large terminals to operate fuel pump and lift sensor plate -
injectors should  spray nice conical pattern.   Replace injectors if really
bad, but usually an imperfect pattern will not kill the motor.

>>Well, I have been starting the pump via the terminal in the fuse box,
however for interest's sake where is the relay? I tried to look that up in
my great Hayes manual, but again, could not find it.

8) last but perhaps could be first - you might consider a good degreasing
to make things a little neater to work on.  I usually do this after I have
the engine working fairly well however, so use your judgement.

>>The plan for the car sometime next year was to get it SCCA ProRally legal
for the Oregon Trail race at which point leaky gaskets making a mess of my
engine bay were to be replaced. At this point it would be a waste of time as
the damn thing just spits it back out :)

See comments below to your original enqury.

What else??? Huw?

Ben

>>Again thanks a ton for the help. I have a few things to do tomorrow
morning...

Tyson

[From: "Tigran Varosyan" <tigran at tigran.com>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Subject: New member with bad problem
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:58:08 -0800

Hi all. I am sorry to stumble in like this but I stranded for the first
time by my Audi. I blew a motor on my primary car (Mitsu 3000GT) replacing
that now and using the Audi as a runabout. It has 192k miles on it and has
never had any major issues so this came as shock at the worst possible
time!

I am a pretty mechanical guy and had this happened on the Mitsu I am sure I
would have it diagnosed within a few hours. The 3000GT International club
is awesome and very active with many guys who know those cars. I also have
a
5000-page manual on the car... With the Audi Im lost. I only learned today
that it has no ECU and that Air/Fuel ratios are controlled by a mechanical
plunger in the fuel distributor... Never even heard of that! I know
carbureted cars pretty well, and I know my 3kgt like the back of my hand.

**** The 4000 Quattro does have an ECU and is CIS-E, which supercedes CIS
for the most part.

This Audi seems to be an in-between technology which is alien to me. I am
willing to learn and I still like my 4k so I hope that someone could help
me make heads or tails of my problem....

Car:
'85 Audi 4000CS Quattro.
5 Cyl 2.2L
Fuel Injected.

Problem: Car starts up, runs for about 10-30 sec in idle or 2-5 sec under
load and dies. When not moving I can rev the car, the engine sounds fine
everything is great and then suddenly it sputters and dies. When I try to
move it, it will run for a very short time. The car needs to sit for 2-4
minutes before running again. If left to sit longer the engine seems to
work a bit longer too.

I have a book (Hayes Manual) for it but its horrible! Its made for EVERY
model Audi 80-87, so finding stuff for my car is impossible. I spent an
hour in the cold rain today looking for the =93warm-up regulator in the
picture of
the book. It finally dawned on me that the pictures in the book are for CIS
and I have CIS-E which is NOT in the manual!!

Ether way, gas engines are not rocket science. Give it air, fuel,
compression and a spark at the right times and everything should
function...
Obviously timing, spark, compression are all there. That leaves us with air
and fuel and this is where I'm going nuts....

Air filter is ok.

I just got a fuel pressure gauge and connecting it to the fuel distributor
feed line I get over 110PSI pressure...

The fuel pump is working. It is SUPER loud and I pulled the hose coming out
of it and it squorted fuel. I also bypassed the fuel pump relay (turned the
fuel pump on manually) and I get good pressure. I read a lot about if the
pump makes noise, replace it, but it has been doing that for like 2 years
now and until few days ago had no problems. It has good pressure and I do
not want to spend $100-300 on something that is not going to fix my
problem.
*** Nothing wrong with your pump - it may be from a later model with higher
pressure which makes more noise on the car.  Rule out the fuel delivery to
the distributor.

Now I am thinking that it may be a malfunctioning "cold start" system of
some sort.
*** You can test the injector is firing, but if the car is starting, I
wouldn't waste my time.

 Ether flooding or starving the engine of fuel. I think its fuel because
even with the throttle plate open and the air box propped open to bypass
the filter the same thing happens. I found a little 2 paragraph thing on
the cold start system in the book for my car and I cannot make heads or
tails of it. I cannot find the part in the picture under my hood (again CIS
pic, my CIS-E). The cold start system is made of 3 components. The sixth
injector in the manifold, an air valve that works like a modern IAC and
some sort of warm-up bimetal spring on the fuel distributor which moves the
plunger in the air sensor up further than it should be thus making the
mixture richer.
 **** NO - not on this engine - it is far simpler.

*** this may be where the Thermo-sender comes in as it is crucial to the
warmup cycle.

Do I even have the bimetal thing on my car??
*** NO - CIS-E uses an electrical regulator - the one I described how to
clean above.

 am going nuts here and this has come at a VERY bad time. I have spent
every waking hour since Wednesday at 3pm working on this and I got work
tomorrow. This list has also not been cooperating since I have been trying
to post since Wednesday night and cannot get through!

*** Work through methodically.  If you plan to pull out injectors and do
what I described above, you will have the car running perfectly within 2
days  - 1 day to get some parts.

Anyway, I'm pissed, I'm without a car, I'm completely soaked with gasoline
and I'm absolutely stuck. HELP!!!

*** Hang in there, and remember were trying to help

Tyson]