KV engine setup

[JShadzi at aol.com]

Rob, I'm sorry that you see my contributions here as an effort to boost my ego, I'll let my 8+ years of posting here speak for itself.

Sometimes email threads can come across a way not intended, for that I do feel bad.  But, sometimes a "discussion" to get to the right information can be messy, and sometimes it can be frustrating when it feels like what your posting is misunderstood or discounted.  I don't see that changing, been on any other forums where that doesn't happen?

I'm not here to make others feel good or myself for that matter, just for the sake of feeling good (I should spend more time with friends and family for that).  This is an online forum, so for what its worth, there is no reason for me to pull punches... in this case it turned out that Mike had the most correct and constructive thing to add to the conversation, so be it, thanks Mike.

Not sure if Phil still has any real info on how to set the base timing on a KV though =)

If you're making references to my posts with Mihnea, I stand behind everything I said to him, I had no "character assesment" of him other that what he posts or claims to know about tuning.  I'd expect that he could handle any challenges I had for him, and visa-versa, not for the sake of my ego, but for the sake of the topic at hand.  Maybe his ego got bent..oh well.

So, sorry if you got bent by my interaction (and the tone of it), if you're still here 8 years from now... I'm sure you'll have plenty of opportunities to do the same to me... Looking forward to it  ;)

Post on,

Javad


>  Javad,
>
>  I did indeed read your entire post. Maybe you didn't entirely read mine
>though. So I'm copying it again for you to read;
>
>> The other possibility is that one of the specs that we've read is
>incorrect
>> >and that indeed there is an element of vaccum advance at idle. For now
>I've
>> >an open mind. Perhaps Phil could report back his findings when he's done.
>
> If you have trouble interpreting that I am saying that it is quite possible
>that what you are saying is right and that vacuum advance is present at
>idle. You know, I'm not trying to show you up or anything.
>
> What I posted was what I found for the KV engine. You've quoted a spec for
>a JT engine which you seem to think is relevant.
>
>  And as for this statement of yours "Unless your Euro CIS setups have some
>circuit to isolate vacuum to the cannister at idle, then the cannister is
>adding full vacuum advance to the distributor" well if you think that a
>vacuum unit adds full advance at idle then you're plain wrong.
>
> I get a bit tired of all this combative talk, At the end of the day I'm
>just trying to post some helpful info that I have relevant to a listers plea
>for help and relating to the engine code quoted. If you think I'm gonna get
>sucked into one of your know-all competitions then think again.
>
> Over and out and done with it.
>
>rob
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
>To: ""rob hod"" <rob3 at hod3.fsnet.co.uk>; <quattro at audifans.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:14 PM
>Subject: Re: KV engine setup
>
>
>> Rob, maybe you didn't read my entire post, so I'm copying it again for you
>to read:
>>
>>  "The vacuum advance most definitely does something at idle, other than
>>  deceleration, there is not other higher vacuum condition than idle.
>>
>>  Javad"
>>
>> You make this assumption:  Your source of information contradicted
>Mihnea's, so you assumed that the vacuum advance does nothing at idle?  Is
>this good logic??
>>
>> Unless your Euro CIS setups have some circuit to isolate vacuum to the
>cannister at idle, then the cannister is adding full vacuum advance to the
>distributor.  Part throttle vacuum is slightly higher than at idle
>typically, but in no way is there no vacuum present.  Also, in manuals I've
>seen, they ask that the vacuum signal to the dist be removed when setting
>base idle, so the fact that you have found information contradicting what
>Mihnea posted doesn't necessarily mean you've found the best solution.
>>
>> In the US, the JT setup in the CISE cars calls for 6d with vacuum
>disconnected, with vacuum connected that jumps to about 18d, this is all at
>idle.
>>
>> Javad
>>
>>
>> > You've hit the nail on the head. The vacuum advance is precisely for a
>> >part throttle situation, and does most of its work when there is a higher
>> >vacuum condition than idle, Whether is does much *at* idle is a moot
>point
>> >in this application, given the differing specs which mihnea and I have
>got
>> >independently from different sources and which seem to indicate there
>isn't
>> >any vacuum advance at idle.
>> >
>> > The other possibility is that one of the specs that we've read is
>incorrect
>> >and that indeed there is an element of vaccum advance at idle. For now
>I've
>> >an open mind. Perhaps Phil could report back his findings when he's done.
>> >
>> > Just trying to help someone's query by giving some pertinent info. Thats
>> >all.
>> >
>> >
>> >rob
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
>> >To: ""rob hod"" <rob3 at hod3.fsnet.co.uk>; <quattro at audifans.com>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:20 PM
>> >Subject: Re: KV engine setup
>> >
>> >
>> >> The vacuum advance most definitely does something at idle, other than
>> >deceleration, there is not other higher vacuum condition than idle.
>> >>
>> >> Javad
>> >>
>> >> > Interesting. The good ol' Haynes manual specifies for the KV
>> >> >
>> >> > 'vacuum hose on, 17 to 19 degrees BTDC at idle'.
>> >> >
>> >> > Looks like the vacuum advance is doing nothing at idle. Which is
>> >> >reasonable. As Mihnea says, this is CIS, not CIS-E, no cat,no lambda,
>no
>> >> >duty cycle. Not much to go wrong and 136bhp bone stock.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >rob
>> >> >----- Original Message ----- > Message: 9
>> >> >> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:52:12 +0200
>> >> >> To: JShadzi at aol.com, quattro at isham-research.com, urq at audifans.com,
>> >> >> quattro at audifans.com
>> >> >> From: Mihnea Cotet <mik at info.fundp.ac.be>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: KV engine setup
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The KV engine is a basic CIS with vacuum advance, the correct specs
>> >> >> according to the factory repair manual are 18 degree BTDC with
>vacuum
>> >> >> disconnected, CO should be 1 +/- 0.2% at idle. This engine has no
>cat.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> HTH,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mihnea
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At 15:23 30/09/2003 -0400, JShadzi at aol.com wrote:
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>> >> >> >Phil, is that the basic CISE system with vacuum advance
>distributor?
>> >If
>> >> >so,
>> >> >> >close off vacuum signal to dist and set base timing to 6d BTDC,
>> >reconnect
>> >> >> >vacuum signal, also ensure that the vacuum advance cannister is not
>> >> >> >leaking, which
>> >> >> >it likely is.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Javad
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >In a message dated 9/30/2003 11:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>> >> >> >quattro at isham-research.com writes:
>> >> >> >Anyone know the official way to set up the timing on a KV?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> > Phil Payne
>> >> >> > http://www.isham-research.com
>> >> >> > +44 7785 302 803
>> >> >> > +49 173 6242039
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
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