KV engine setup

[rob hod]

  Javad,

     I appreciate your response here, and I'm not one to bear a grudge.

     However, please consider my point of view here, -  it should be
possible to share information without it getting into a competition, e.g.
people who have offered information in a helpful manner don't need to feel
they've been trumped if someone then supplies better,  more accurate info.
Similarly someone who has provided later, more accurate info. shouldn't have
to deal with a succession of mails from someone who gets stuck in a
defensive rut. People don't have to get 'bent' by interaction, and every
heavywieght worth their salt knows that they should pull punches unless
they're in the ring.

   Again I'm not saying this to provoke, I'm attempting to promote an ideal.

   Now I wouldn't describe myself as an ego-less character by any means, and
while I'm pretty careful to stick to the facts on car lists, I don't mind
being proved wrong, but I find comments like "Is this good logic??" a bit
provocative, (call me sensitive but that's at least one query mark too many)
so I'm sure you can understand the tone of my last e-mails on the topic
being a bit below the standard I set myself.

  So, I'll apologise about the bit about 'know-all competitions' as in the
past I've seen that you're normally a helpful and enthusiastic lister. It's
wasn't at all a comment that applies to you. I have noticed your ding-dongs
with Mihnea, and I thought that you conducted yourself well, but I suspected
that you were getting trenchant and combative with me due to the fact that
my info on the KV was on the back of some from Mihnea, and that in some
paranoid fashion you thought I must be siding with him. Rest assured that is
not the case. I happen to own a KV engined car, thus had a selfish interest
in the issue. I have a manual,  I opened it and shared what I found. I have
no interest in any discussions of yours and Minhea's.

 Please rest assured that I admire and take close interest in the progress
you've made with your tq project and no doubt if I eventually get a turbo
I'll be glad for any advice you have.

 As far as Phil not having the base timing for his KV, - see my first post
;)

 No worries,
 Cheers,

rob
----- Original Message -----
From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
To: ""rob hod"" <rob3 at hod3.fsnet.co.uk>; <quattro at audifans.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: KV engine setup


> Rob, I'm sorry that you see my contributions here as an effort to boost my
ego, I'll let my 8+ years of posting here speak for itself.
>
> Sometimes email threads can come across a way not intended, for that I do
feel bad.  But, sometimes a "discussion" to get to the right information can
be messy, and sometimes it can be frustrating when it feels like what your
posting is misunderstood or discounted.  I don't see that changing, been on
any other forums where that doesn't happen?
>
> I'm not here to make others feel good or myself for that matter, just for
the sake of feeling good (I should spend more time with friends and family
for that).  This is an online forum, so for what its worth, there is no
reason for me to pull punches... in this case it turned out that Mike had
the most correct and constructive thing to add to the conversation, so be
it, thanks Mike.
>
> Not sure if Phil still has any real info on how to set the base timing on
a KV though =)
>
> If you're making references to my posts with Mihnea, I stand behind
everything I said to him, I had no "character assesment" of him other that
what he posts or claims to know about tuning.  I'd expect that he could
handle any challenges I had for him, and visa-versa, not for the sake of my
ego, but for the sake of the topic at hand.  Maybe his ego got bent..oh
well.
>
> So, sorry if you got bent by my interaction (and the tone of it), if
you're still here 8 years from now... I'm sure you'll have plenty of
opportunities to do the same to me... Looking forward to it  ;)
>
> Post on,
>
> Javad
>
>
> > Javad,
> >
> > I did indeed read your entire post. Maybe you didn't entirely read mine
> >though. So I'm copying it again for you to read;
> >
> >> The other possibility is that one of the specs that we've read is
> >incorrect
> >> >and that indeed there is an element of vaccum advance at idle. For now
> >I've
> >> >an open mind. Perhaps Phil could report back his findings when he's
done.
> >
> > If you have trouble interpreting that I am saying that it is quite
possible
> >that what you are saying is right and that vacuum advance is present at
> >idle. You know, I'm not trying to show you up or anything.
> >
> > What I posted was what I found for the KV engine. You've quoted a spec
for
> >a JT engine which you seem to think is relevant.
> >
> > And as for this statement of yours "Unless your Euro CIS setups have
some
> >circuit to isolate vacuum to the cannister at idle, then the cannister is
> >adding full vacuum advance to the distributor" well if you think that a
> >vacuum unit adds full advance at idle then you're plain wrong.
> >
> > I get a bit tired of all this combative talk, At the end of the day I'm
> >just trying to post some helpful info that I have relevant to a listers
plea
> >for help and relating to the engine code quoted. If you think I'm gonna
get
> >sucked into one of your know-all competitions then think again.
> >
> > Over and out and done with it.
> >
> >rob
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
> >To: ""rob hod"" <rob3 at hod3.fsnet.co.uk>; <quattro at audifans.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:14 PM
> >Subject: Re: KV engine setup
> >
> >
> >> Rob, maybe you didn't read my entire post, so I'm copying it again for
you
> >to read:
> >>
> >> "The vacuum advance most definitely does something at idle, other than
> >> deceleration, there is not other higher vacuum condition than idle.
> >>
> >> Javad"
> >>
> >> You make this assumption: Your source of information contradicted
> >Mihnea's, so you assumed that the vacuum advance does nothing at idle? Is
> >this good logic??
> >>
> >> Unless your Euro CIS setups have some circuit to isolate vacuum to the
> >cannister at idle, then the cannister is adding full vacuum advance to
the
> >distributor. Part throttle vacuum is slightly higher than at idle
> >typically, but in no way is there no vacuum present. Also, in manuals
I've
> >seen, they ask that the vacuum signal to the dist be removed when setting
> >base idle, so the fact that you have found information contradicting what
> >Mihnea posted doesn't necessarily mean you've found the best solution.
> >>
> >> In the US, the JT setup in the CISE cars calls for 6d with vacuum
> >disconnected, with vacuum connected that jumps to about 18d, this is all
at
> >idle.
> >>
> >> Javad
> >>
> >>
> >> > You've hit the nail on the head. The vacuum advance is precisely for
a
> >> >part throttle situation, and does most of its work when there is a
higher
> >> >vacuum condition than idle, Whether is does much *at* idle is a moot
> >point
> >> >in this application, given the differing specs which mihnea and I have
> >got
> >> >independently from different sources and which seem to indicate there
> >isn't
> >> >any vacuum advance at idle.
> >> >
> >> > The other possibility is that one of the specs that we've read is
> >incorrect
> >> >and that indeed there is an element of vaccum advance at idle. For now
> >I've
> >> >an open mind. Perhaps Phil could report back his findings when he's
done.
> >> >
> >> > Just trying to help someone's query by giving some pertinent info.
Thats
> >> >all.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >rob
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
> >> >To: ""rob hod"" <rob3 at hod3.fsnet.co.uk>; <quattro at audifans.com>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:20 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: KV engine setup
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> The vacuum advance most definitely does something at idle, other
than
> >> >deceleration, there is not other higher vacuum condition than idle.
> >> >>
> >> >> Javad
> >> >>
> >> >> > Interesting. The good ol' Haynes manual specifies for the KV
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 'vacuum hose on, 17 to 19 degrees BTDC at idle'.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Looks like the vacuum advance is doing nothing at idle. Which is
> >> >> >reasonable. As Mihnea says, this is CIS, not CIS-E, no cat,no
lambda,
> >no
> >> >> >duty cycle. Not much to go wrong and 136bhp bone stock.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >rob
> >> >> >----- Original Message ----- > Message: 9
> >> >> >> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:52:12 +0200
> >> >> >> To: JShadzi at aol.com, quattro at isham-research.com,
urq at audifans.com,
> >> >> >> quattro at audifans.com
> >> >> >> From: Mihnea Cotet <mik at info.fundp.ac.be>
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: KV engine setup
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The KV engine is a basic CIS with vacuum advance, the correct
specs
> >> >> >> according to the factory repair manual are 18 degree BTDC with
> >vacuum
> >> >> >> disconnected, CO should be 1 +/- 0.2% at idle. This engine has no
> >cat.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> HTH,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mihnea
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> At 15:23 30/09/2003 -0400, JShadzi at aol.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >> >> >> >Phil, is that the basic CISE system with vacuum advance
> >distributor?
> >> >If
> >> >> >so,
> >> >> >> >close off vacuum signal to dist and set base timing to 6d BTDC,
> >> >reconnect
> >> >> >> >vacuum signal, also ensure that the vacuum advance cannister is
not
> >> >> >> >leaking, which
> >> >> >> >it likely is.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Javad
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >In a message dated 9/30/2003 11:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> >> >> >quattro at isham-research.com writes:
> >> >> >> >Anyone know the official way to set up the timing on a KV?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> > Phil Payne
> >> >> >> > http://www.isham-research.com
> >> >> >> > +44 7785 302 803
> >> >> >> > +49 173 6242039
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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