[urq] Durham NC - UrQ starting difficulties *FIXED*

[Noah]

Thanks a ton to all those who responded!!! You were right - it was the
starter solenoid. The clicking was definitely coming from the starter, and I
got a new starter and it seems to have fixed the problem. Additionally the
one I took off was obviously the original one or at least VERY old. Not only
did it look like hell (northern car), but the new one turned the engine over
much faster. I never really thought it was turning slowly before, but I
guess a 7:1 motor being cranked by a fresh optima should turn over pretty
fast.

You guys are great, thanks again!
/me hands out cold beers to everyone
Now I will start trying to figure out why it runs like shiat.

-Noah

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bremer" <wbremer at maine.rr.com>
To: "Noah" <noahgodwin at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [urq] Durham NC - UrQ starting difficulties


> Noah:
>
> These sorts of starting problems are"electro-mechanical," as opposed to
the
> more troubling fuel system-and-sensor-related no-start problems.  If you
> ALWAYS hear the "click" when you turn the key, then you need to determine
> what is making the clicking noise.   If you don't always hear the "click,"
> the problem and be a worn out contact in the ign. switch.   Which click
are
> we talking about--there would be a faint "click" or two as you turn the
ign.
> key through the "run" position as the load relay engages/disengages as you
> turn the key to the "start" spring-loaded position.   If this is when you
> hear the click, it could be the ign. switch (a not-uncommon failure in
> 20-year old cars).
>
> But if the click is the starter solenoid activating (a fairly loud click,
> and definitely one you'd could track down by listening in the engine
> compartment), the problem is likely in the solenoid or the starter motor.
> Urq starters take a lot of abuse by being so close to the turbo-generated
> heat from the exhaust manifold.  Originally, there was a heat shield and
> possibly some insulation to protect the starter, but that shield may have
> rusted or corroded away by now (they often do).   It's also common when
the
> starter fails for heat reasons to NOT hear any noise under the hood
because
> the solenoid mechanism is warped and just won't move until the engine
cools
> off.  If the click you hear is of the solenoid trying to engage, then it
can
> be a couple of things: (1) the ring on the solenoid that conducts battery
> juice right to the starter motor has become corroded and burnt over the
> years and the contact spot just won't conduct any or enough current to run
> the starter; (2) the solenoid moves a bit, but the lever mechanism is
> partially jammed or warped so that it will not always move the solenoid
the
> full travel length: you hear a click but the solenoid electrical switch
> doesn't really engage; or (3), it engages but won't turn the starter
because
> the starter casing is warped from heat and it just can't spin.
> The early urqs had starters that consumed a lot of power (leading to the
> solenoid issues), and the replacement starter is a smaller, gear driven
> starter that is less at risk for these problems, especially if you
fabricate
> a heat shield for it.
>
> I'd lean toward the view that the starter is dying, given your
description.
> One more thing to check: if, at night, you turn the key and the starter
> doesn't run, can you tell of the interior light dims when you are trying
to
> start the car (indicating power to the solenoid or to the starter motor
but
> the starter motor won't turn because it is binding up from heat warping.
>
> If the problem occurs when the car is cool, can you tap the starter with a
> hammer (while someone holds the key switch to "start"  to see if that
> triggers the starter to operate.   If the problem mostly occurs when the
car
> is pretty warm or hot, then it's likely that the starter is binding up due
> to age and heat warpage.
>
> Some folks have had problems with the circuit from the key to the solenoid
> not carrying enough power to run the starter (due to corrosion in the
wiring
> (common problem in 1983 and earlier urqs, uncommon in later ones).  The
> "key" to analyzing the problem is to verify beyond a shadow of a doubt
just
> what is making the "click" noise.  If it's the starter solenoid, then I'll
> bet the problem is in the starter and you should look around for the
geared
> version as a replacement.   But since there are two separate circuits that
> can cause the problem you describe (one being the current path from the
ign.
> key to the solenoid, and the second being the current path directly from
the
> battery to the solenoid to the actual starter motor), you need to try to
> isolate which circuit is causing the problem.   A new starter would
probably
> not fix the problem if it's the ign key current path circuit that is the
> problem.  Unfortunately, bench-testing the starter won't tell you much
> because it will always be cool and (if it's a heat-related problem), the
> problem won't exist under the test conditions.
>
> Taking your description at face value, I'd say it's a worn out starter
> solenoid and you need a new starter (preferably the smaller, geared one).
> My $0.02.
>
> Incidentally, I maintain the North American Urquattro Registry and I don't
> have you listed as an owner.  Five urqs were known to live in NC, and I'd
> like to update the record.   If you'd be willing to provide the complete
> VIN, the car's color, and your name (I presume its your email address) and
> city of location I can see if the car has ever been registered.  If you, I
> can tell you what the registering owner reported as modifications.  I
don';t
> share your or your car's information with any other party (this is not a
> "web-based" registry) without your permission.  I've updated it already to
> show that you are a NC-based urq owner, but it would be nice to link your
> name to a specific urq.
> Thanks a million.
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noah" <noahgodwin at earthlink.net>
> To: <urq at audifans.com>
> Cc: "'qlist'" <quattro at audifans.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 9:33 AM
> Subject: [urq] Durham NC - UrQ starting difficulties
>
>
> > I'm about to tear my hear out trying to solve a starting problem with my
> > UrQ. Sometimes it starts fine, other times it will simply click when I
> turn
> > the key. My battery is good, and when this is happening I can add jumper
> > cables/jumpbox/battery charger to no avail. The battery will not "pass
the
> > juice"(a technical term) to the starter. If I mess around with it long
> > enough and hold my mouth just right it will turn over. I suspect that
when
> > it does turn over it may be simply because the electronics have cooled
> down
> > enough to make the resistances right again.
> >
> > A virtual cold beer will be awarded to the one who gets this one.
> >
> >
> > -Noah
> > '84 UrQ
> > '87 5kcstq
> > other stuff
> >
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>