re. 88 5Ktq hall sender issues (frustration mounting)

[Ben Swann]

Jesper,

Some earlier model transmissions had a sensor window at the top of the
bellhousing as you describe, which was for a special test sensor, but 12:00
does not sound right to me as the location for the TDC window.  You should
be referring to the Bentley factory manual for good description and
procedure for locating TDC as well as lining up the timing belt and
distributor.   That aside I'll try to describe it here.  I don't have the
Bently manual handy, or could point you to specific sections.

To find Top dead center -
There is a dimple on front of the engine cover plate and a mark on the
harmonic balancer - this is often not accurate, but if the pully has not
slipped and the mark is visible, it gets one in the ballpark.  Usually when
the engine is rebuilt or torn down, timing belt installed, etc. the mark
gets verified and rescribed with a punch/chisel  to match with TDC that is
more accurately located by the flywheel "0|"mark.

Often when I have a hard time locating TDC on the flywheel, I'll take a 12"
1/2' diameter rod - the one that goes with the emergency kit in the car
works great.  This gets placed in the #1 spark plug hole adn CAREFULLY turn
the crank by hand while pulling the rod up a little at a time so it doesn't
jam, until it stops rising and starts to fall again.  Just where it stops
rising and before it starts to go back down again is roughtly TDC.  At this
time the "0|" mark will be visible through the window on the side of the
bellhousing.  You may want to clean it up a bit to help find it the next
time, but I never really have to use a timing light for this engine once the
distributor get located "in window" whcih is not the same as the TDC window
cutout in the bell housing.  The TDC window has a pointer that will line up
with the 0 mark when at TDC.  The TDC window is located below where the head
meets the block, which is not what I would consider to be 12:00 but more
like 4:00.

Once TDC is properly located, then align the timing belt so the cam sprocket
mark lines up with the valve cover gasket.  Once the cam sprocket and TDC
are aligned and properly locked down as per timing belt installation, the
distributor should be adjusted so the mark on the trigger wheel lines up
with the mark on the distibutor housing.  Then lock the distributor down.

The distributor does not have to be dead on accurate, but it is easy to do
so.  Once distributor, cam and crank are correct, if you still get the code
2113, you may want to check the hall sender is actually functioning
properly.  All this is also covered in the manual.

If you find the Hall distributor is triggering properly,  then suspect a
problem with one of the flywheel sensors or associated wiring.

Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jesper moreau" <airfreaknessaudi at hotmail.com>
To: <benswann at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: re. 88 5Ktq hall sender issues (frustration mounting)


> WOW... ok where do i start. I really enjoy different wording perspectives.
> THe way you are stating what you have leads me to believe that I am not
> lining up the flywheel up quite right.
>
> now, is it true that I am supposed to put "0" on the flywheel @ 12:00 as
> visible through the small window on top of the bell housing?
>
> or are you making reference to the timing pin that needs to pass in front
of
>   the PRS and RPM sensors?
> OR!!!!  are you saying that they are one in the same. "as the TDC "0" mark
> enters the 12:00 window, the pin passes in front of the sensors?"
> Let me know and by the way..... thank you so much for responding!!!
>
> Jesper Moreau
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >Reply-To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >To: <airfreaknessaudi at hotmail.com>
> >CC: <quattro at audifans.com>
> >Subject: re. 88 5Ktq hall sender issues (frustration mounting)
> >Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:36:29 -0500
> >
> >Restating the obvious - it is good you have a code.  You should be
> >concentrating on the ignition - don't go off on a tangent, as some other
> >replies suggested other non-related things to look at. Don't assume that
> >you have everything correct with distributor adjustment and wiring -
double
> >check.
> >
> >2113 (Blink Fault Code), VAG1551/2 Fault Code Number 00515
> >Hall sender in distributor
> >Distributor alignment, faulty sender,
> >Mis-located sensor & distributor
> >
> >Most likely you simply have the distributor not adjusted with respect to
> >the flywheel sensors.  In short, the Hall signal needs to be synchronized
> >with the RPM sender and Reference sender signals that are from the
sensors
> >located on the bellhousing.  If any of these signals is not present or
out
> >of sequence, no primary signal will be sent from the ECU.
> >
> >Make sure you did not inadvertantly mix up any of these sensor wires.
They
> >are easy to mixup as the color of the cables and wires inside are all the
> >same for each.  Sometimes the color band comes off and they get plugged
> >into the wrong sensor.  Double check these by doing continuity loop from
> >the ECU harness out 1) to the RPM and Ref sender, you should see about 1K
> >ohm for both RPM and REF sender.  If they are mixed up, however a
> >different code would be thrown, or as in my case, no code at all.  It is
> >easy to mix one of these up with the knock sensor- that is what happened
to
> >me.  Continuity check to each of the connectors for the various sensors
may
> >be in order.  I simply used a paper clip or small wire to loop back the
> >yellow and black wires then test for continuity at the appropriate wires
at
> >the ECU harness.
> >
> >With no primary, the fuel pump relay will not trigger either, so don't
> >suspect it faulty if not hearing the fuel pump.
> >
> >Make sure the coil pack with transistor signal amplifier is grounded
well,
> >and make sure you have continuity between the ECU and this module.
> >
> >I had a no-spark condition recently resolved.  On mine I had no code, but
> >following the above methodically, I found the problem.  If you find
> >yourself getting bogged down, you may need to step away from the problem
> >for awhile then come back to it and retrace your steps - take notes of
what
> >you are doing in the process.
> >
> >See: http://www.homestead.com/ben_swann/MCWiring.html
> >
> >for additional information regaring the ECU pinout, etc.
> >
> >Let us know what you find.
> >
> >Ben
> >
> >[From: "jesper moreau" <airfreaknessaudi at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: 88 5Ktq hall sender issues (frustration mounting)
> >To: quattro at audifans.com
> >Message-ID: <BAY1-F392D1BD59279B0CF659F1DCAA0 at phx.gbl>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >
> >I need as much feedback on this on as possible and thank you all in
> >advance!
> >Read the archives... need more!
> >
> >The Project:
> >
> >is an '88 5KTQ I pulled the top end off and dropped the bowels out of the
> >bottom end.The Background on what I did to the engine itself:
> >
> >I honed the cylinders installed new rings, installed new main and
> >connecting rod bearings with the engine still in the bay (poor mans
engine
> >stand)I had the head professionally machined: surface, porting, new
valves
> >and
> >guides, radial valve job on the exhaust, new lifters, new 272 blausport
> >cam.   Installed a 3piece exhaust manifold that spits into a k24 turbo. I
> >replaced the cap rotor and wiring with new OEM and the plugs with bosch
> >Platin W4DP0  plugs (hence the poor mans engine stand). running a
2Bennett
> >ECU with a 1.8  bar w/g spring (which i ran in the car for a couple of
> >months prior to  dismantling the engine - WOW!)
> >Problem -  NO SPARK!
> >
> >What I've done so far:
> >
> >
> >so, i went thru the Bentley and tested the hall sender, coil, plug wires,
> >position reference sensor and all related wiring all came out ok...
checked
> >  for pin on flywheel - present! checked and rechecked TDC. To be
> >obsessive, I
> >ran my distributor and ECU in my '86 5KTQ and they checked out fine and
> >even  further put the ones from the 86 into 88 and tried it and -
NOTHING.
> >I  grabbed the coil from the '86 and installed it.. nothing. Put the
'88's
> >in
> >the '86... checked out fine.
> >
> >Did a code retrieval per the bently and the light flashes 2113 which
means
> >ecu not recieving signal from hall sender. Well why the heck not. Hmmm. I
> >would really appreciate any BTDT... Jim Green... Huw Powell.... somebody?
> >What might I be missing.
> >
> >well if you have any further questions I am happy to answer them. and
> >again, I appreciate any and all responses from you all. Thanks in
> >advance!!!!!!
> >
> >Jesper Moreau]
>
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