MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?

Denis sparkplugvw at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 25 10:46:03 EST 2004


Yes sure. Have you talk to Cody ?

Denis J

----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Swann <benswann at comcast.net>
To: Denis <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?


> Well actually based on list feedback, using the Motronic injection rail
and
> only a few of its sensors and manage with something like Megasquirt may be
> what I end up doing.
>
> I can tune Motronic with chips, but it is a PITA.
>
> Ben
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denis" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 7:23 AM
> Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
>
>
> >   that s ok. Big project you got with Motronic hey ;-)
> >
> >   Denis
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   To: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:37 PM
> >   Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >
> >
> >   > Denis,
> >   >
> >   > I meant the Jorden fellow you mentioned.  See my brains are hurting
so
> > much
> >   > I got it mixed up with your name.
> >   >
> >   > Later,
> >   >
> >   > Ben
> >   > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > From: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 4:49 PM
> >   > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   > > IT s open project. Its  independent system from his mother
> Megasquirt.
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > Who is Julians ?
> >   > >
> >   > > Yes, i ll use CSI-E3 first , then quirt and spark.
> >   > >
> >   > > The AVR suppose to be all in one board but with such feature they
ll
> > not i
> >   > > think so.
> >   > >
> >   > > My opinion is I prefert sandwitch boards. Top board is for CPU,
> > keyboard,
> >   > > display interface, communication chip and some powers interface
> chip,
> > map
> >   > > sensor, sensor input signal formating , the second board is to
drive
> >   > > injectors, coils, fuel pump, secondary outputs, relays.
> >   > >
> >   > > Denis Julien
> >   > >
> >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > To: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > Cc: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:32 PM
> >   > > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > > Is the Mega AVR a spinoff of the megasquirt project consorcium
and
> > is an
> >   > > > open system?
> >   > > >
> >   > > > What is Julians email address?
> >   > > >
> >   > > > BTW, I know that it is relatively strightforward to use
Megasquirt
> > in
> >   > > > conjunction with the ignition portion of one of the other
systems.
> >   > > Probably
> >   > > > the best one would be CIS-E3.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I would kind of like an all-integrated or nothing solution at
this
> >   > point,
> >   > > > which is why I was going to start out with a base Motronic
system.
> > Then
> >   > I
> >   > > > could go MS later, using the same injector setup and various
> > Motronic
> >   > > > sensors.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Ben
> >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > From: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > > To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:33 PM
> >   > > > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > > > Oups ;-)
> >   > > > > Yes it works, Cody Forbes did and some others guys on Audifans
> and
> > on
> >   > > > > Megasquirt  too.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Some use magnet on cam pulley. Other use the Hall module on
the
> > distr.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > I m actualy reading the Mega doc. I m in the learning curves.
I
> > know
> >   > how
> >   > > > it
> >   > > > > works in general but dont know yet how they programmed it
(exact
> >   > routine
> >   > > > > etc..)Got all parts need for:sensors,,, injectors...
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Mega pulse when engine ask pulse, so 5 cyl, or 24 cylinder it
> > works.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > I ordered a partial kit and waiting.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Jorden from Mega AVR (sequential) want me use his system ;-),
i
> > dont
> >   > > know
> >   > > > > yet. It s in Hongry and not lots people here using it. Not as
> >   > documented
> >   > > > as
> >   > > > > Megasquirt. I read lot of doc about it and seems to be i open
a
> > door
> >   > and
> >   > > i
> >   > > > > need to open another door to get the first anwers then open
> > another
> >   > door
> >   > > > to
> >   > > > > get the anw to the last etc.... lot s of boxes in the same
box.
> > Better
> >   > > > > structure for Mega doc. They are in working progress. It ll be
a
> > great
> >   > > > > system. Dont know what to do yet.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > For my knoledge, first i ll make me more confidente with a
> smaller
> >   > > system
> >   > > > > first:Megasquirt, then after been agood Tuner i ll at
something
> >   > higher.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Denis J
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > To: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:14 PM
> >   > > > > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > > Denis,
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Does the MS&S work for 5 cyl.  What is
distributor/triggering
> > used?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Have you been working with the MS development?  Just trying
to
> >   > figure
> >   > > > out
> >   > > > > > who folks are.
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Ben
> >   > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > From: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > > > > To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:55 AM
> >   > > > > > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any
difference?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > As Jim said,  give a try with Megaquirt and spark first.
> Cause
> > the
> >   > > > ultra
> >   > > > > > > mega is not for tomorrow. and i cant wait until.
> >   > > > > > > Then  i ll develop a board (if i m not to busy with the V8
> > mods)
> >   > to
> >   > > > > > > synchronize for senquential, after full tuning is ok and
> work
> >   > fine.
> >   > > > Not
> >   > > > > > need
> >   > > > > > > to touch the software.
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > Denis J
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > > From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > To: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > > > > > Cc: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:17 AM
> >   > > > > > > Subject: Re: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any
> difference?
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Denis,
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I's like to discuss this more with you.  Although I
> mention
> >   > using
> >   > > > > > > Motronic,
> >   > > > > > > > I do have other motives.  I have been eager to jump on
the
> > MS
> >   > > > > bandwagon,
> >   > > > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > think that having the Motronic system and all of its
> >   > components -
> >   > > > fuel
> >   > > > > > > rail,
> >   > > > > > > > injectors, sensors, as well as the ECU gives me a good
> base
> >   > system
> >   > > > to
> >   > > > > > work
> >   > > > > > > > with MS should I opt for that route.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > My main concerns with MS right now are the lack of
> > integrated
> >   > > spark
> >   > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > sequential fuel injection.  What are folks doing right
> now?
> > How
> >   > > did
> >   > > > > you
> >   > > > > > > > implement spark, timing, knock sensor control, etc.  are
> you
> >   > using
> >   > > a
> >   > > > > > > version
> >   > > > > > > > that supports sequential or the base MS batch setup.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I have a ton of ??'s, but have been lurking and trying
to
> > get
> >   > > > answers
> >   > > > > in
> >   > > > > > > the
> >   > > > > > > > background.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Eventually I'd like to develop a DIY kit for those who
> don't
> >   > want
> >   > > to
> >   > > > > go
> >   > > > > > > > through the learning curve.  I don't know if this is a
> >   > worthwhile
> >   > > > > > venture,
> >   > > > > > > > but feel it may be for someone who simply can't work a
9-5
> >   > > high-tech
> >   > > > > job
> >   > > > > > > > anymore, but like doing this type of work.  I had
> considered
> >   > > Javad's
> >   > > > > > > system,
> >   > > > > > > > but the price is a shocker.  I think an MS based system
> and
> > its
> >   > > > > > components
> >   > > > > > > > could be made available for a fraction of the cost - I'm
> > talking
> >   > > > about
> >   > > > > > > > sequential integrated with ignition that has all of the
> > control
> >   > > and
> >   > > > > more
> >   > > > > > > > that Motronic ever had.  Any idea about the timeframe of
> > this?
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I know I should be asking the MS list some of these
> > questions,
> >   > but
> >   > > > > I've
> >   > > > > > > seen
> >   > > > > > > > the questions asked before, and they seem to get brushed
> > aside.
> >   > I
> >   > > > > would
> >   > > > > > > > like to help with developing some of the code modules,
but
> > at
> >   > > > present
> >   > > > > > > don't
> >   > > > > > > > even know who to ask about this or where to look.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Appreciate the feedback!
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Ben
> >   > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > > > From: "Denis Julien" <sparkplugvw at hotmail.com>
> >   > > > > > > > To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:22 AM
> >   > > > > > > > Subject: MegaS ,AVR..Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any
difference?
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Mega AVR too, or the ultra Mega coming soon, with a
DSP
> > from
> >   > > > > Motorola.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Denis Julien
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > > > > From: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > > > To: <JShadzi at aol.com>; <jeg1976 at yahoo.com>;
> >   > > <quattro at audifans.com>
> >   > > > > > > > > Cc: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:17 PM
> >   > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Javad,
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > I do expect to have to do some datalogging and
tweaking
> of
> > the
> >   > > > maps
> >   > > > > if
> >   > > > > > I
> >   > > > > > > > use
> >   > > > > > > > > Motronic.  I also understand that the system is rather
> >   > adaptive
> >   > > at
> >   > > > > > least
> >   > > > > > > > at
> >   > > > > > > > > lower power levels.  My initial thrust will be getting
> an
> >   > engine
> >   > > > > that
> >   > > > > > > > works
> >   > > > > > > > > fine under 300HP using among other things a complete
> > Motronic
> >   > > > system
> >   > > > > I
> >   > > > > > > > > picked up rather economically.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Once I get the engine working at lower HP, I do have
> some
> >   > > > resources
> >   > > > > > > > > available to help me develop appropriate chip for the
> > specific
> >   > > > > engine
> >   > > > > > > > > characteristics.  At that point I will indeed need to
> come
> > up
> >   > > with
> >   > > > > > more
> >   > > > > > > > > optimal maps and probably larger injectors for start.
I
> > feel
> >   > > this
> >   > > > > is
> >   > > > > > > > better
> >   > > > > > > > > than starting with the CIS setup I was going to use.
I
> > also
> >   > > think
> >   > > > > > that
> >   > > > > > > if
> >   > > > > > > > > Motronic doesn't cut it in the end due to  its
> complexity
> > and
> >   > > that
> >   > > > > the
> >   > > > > > > > code
> >   > > > > > > > > is somewhat proprietary and difficult to crack, I can
> use
> > what
> >   > I
> >   > > > > have
> >   > > > > > as
> >   > > > > > > a
> >   > > > > > > > > good base to control with a variation on Megasquirt or
> > other
> >   > > > system
> >   > > > > > > > > available - perhaps even yours.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > > Ben
> >   > > > > > > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > > > >   From: JShadzi at aol.com
> >   > > > > > > > >   To: benswann at comcast.net ; jeg1976 at yahoo.com ;
> >   > > > > quattro at audifans.com
> >   > > > > > > > >   Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:04 PM
> >   > > > > > > > >   Subject: Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   Ben, the 3B Motronic system, like any other factory
> >   > management
> >   > > > > > system,
> >   > > > > > > > is
> >   > > > > > > > > developed for an _engine system_, in this case the 3B
> 20v
> > I5
> >   > > with
> >   > > > > > given
> >   > > > > > > > > turbo, sensors/inputs, airflow input (including
> > intercooler,
> >   > > > > manifold,
> >   > > > > > > > > piping, exh. manifold), etc.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   The 3B Motronic works wonderfully in the stock
> > application,
> >   > > > > > obviously,
> >   > > > > > > > but
> >   > > > > > > > > in the 10v you can definitely feel that the
programming
> is
> >   > > > slightly
> >   > > > > > off.
> >   > > > > > > > > Once you start changing turbos, intercoolers, this and
> > that,
> >   > and
> >   > > > > > really
> >   > > > > > > > > start pushing the boost and power, the Motrinic system
> > does
> >   > not
> >   > > > like
> >   > > > > > it.
> >   > > > > > > > > Throwing "chips" at it doesn't help the situation, and
> by
> > the
> >   > > time
> >   > > > > you
> >   > > > > > > > > realize this, who knows how much money you'll have
> thrown
> > at
> >   > it.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   About 5 years ago, during much of the development of
> the
> >   > > 034efi
> >   > > > > > > system,
> >   > > > > > > > I
> >   > > > > > > > > worked on 2 projects to put the 3B Motronic system on
> the
> > 10v,
> >   > > > this
> >   > > > > > was
> >   > > > > > > my
> >   > > > > > > > > experience, and further confirmed the need for the
Stage
> > II
> >   > > > systems
> >   > > > > I
> >   > > > > > > have
> >   > > > > > > > > available now.  The harder you push the motor, the
more
> >   > trouble
> >   > > > > you'll
> >   > > > > > > > have
> >   > > > > > > > > with it.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   You may or may not see my opinion/experience in a
> > "sincere
> >   > > > light",
> >   > > > > > but
> >   > > > > > > > > that's the best advice I can give you.  I'd like to
hear
> >   > anyone
> >   > > > > else's
> >   > > > > > > > > experience with installing the 3B Motronic system in a
> >   > modified
> >   > > > > 10vt,
> >   > > > > > > for
> >   > > > > > > > > the varied feedback.
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   Ben, my question to you is, what makes you think it
> > _will_
> >   > > work?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   Javad
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >   In a message dated 2/23/2004 3:10:43 PM Pacific
> Standard
> >   > Time,
> >   > > > > > > > > benswann at comcast.net writes:
> >   > > > > > > > >     Javad,
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >     Why do you say not Motronic in a 10V?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >     Ben
> >   > > > > > > > >     ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > > > >     From: <JShadzi at aol.com>
> >   > > > > > > > >     To: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>; """Jim
> > Green"""
> >   > > > > > > > > <jeg1976 at yahoo.com>;
> >   > > > > > > > >     <quattro at audifans.com>
> >   > > > > > > > >     Cc: "Ben Swann" <benswann at comcast.net>
> >   > > > > > > > >     Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:42 PM
> >   > > > > > > > >     Subject: Re: MC-1 MC-2 - Block any difference?
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > Ben, just to be real clear on this issue (cause
> its
> >   > close
> >   > > to
> >   > > > > my
> >   > > > > > > > > heart),
> >   > > > > > > > >     *and I'm not saying you implied this*, but... I
> don't
> > tune
> >   > > for
> >   > > >
> >   > > > > big
> >   > > > > > > > dyno
> >   > > > > > > > > #'s,
> >   > > > > > > > >     big dyno #'s are the result of a powerful, well
> tuned
> > car.
> >   > > > Any
> >   > > > > > > advice
> >   > > > > > > > > you
> >   > > > > > > > >     get from me will be in the context of reliable,
> > smooth,
> >   > > > everyday
> >   > > > > > > > power,
> >   > > > > > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > >     as much of it as you like (ie: the intended
> > application or
> >   > > > > result
> >   > > > > > of
> >   > > > > > > > the
> >   > > > > > > > >     project).
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > I commuted 60 miles a day in my 80tq for 3
years,
> > 400hp
> >   > > and
> >   > > > > all,
> >   > > > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > > got
> >   > > > > > > > >     near 30mpg, never left me stranted once.
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > Again, not saying you accused me of tuning for
> > "sloppy
> >   > > > power",
> >   > > > > > but
> >   > > > > > > > > making
> >   > > > > > > > >     a 400hp 10v run smooth everyday isn't too
difficult
> > with
> >   > the
> >   > > > > right
> >   > > > > > > > >     management system (ie: not 3B Motronic, in a 10v
> > anyway)
> >   > and
> >   > > > > some
> >   > > > > > > > > attention
> >   > > > > > > > >     to detail.
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > With that said, it doesn't sound like you're
> > shooting
> >   > for
> >   > > > the
> >   > > > > > moon
> >   > > > > > > > wrt
> >   > > > > > > > >     power, so I'd recommend the MC2 for you, because
it
> > will
> >   > > > perform
> >   > > > > > > > better
> >   > > > > > > > > in
> >   > > > > > > > >     the range of power/use you're looking for.  A
> pinging
> >   > motor
> >   > > is
> >   > > > > > > > "sloppy"
> >   > > > > > > > > to
> >   > > > > > > > >     me, so if you wanted to run 20+psi boost, then the
> MC2
> >  may
> >   > > > > become
> >   > > > > > > more
> >   > > > > > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > >     more "sloppy", esp. w/o the right octange fuel or
> > engine
> >   > > > > > management
> >   > > > > > > > > system.
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > And, IME, water injection will only take you so
> far,
> >   > there
> >   > > > is
> >   > > > > > > > nothing
> >   > > > > > > > > like
> >   > > > > > > > >     the proper octane fuel for the application.
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > 3B - 9.3:1
> >   > > > > > > > >     > MC2 - 8.4:1
> >   > > > > > > > >     >
> >   > > > > > > > >     > Javad
> >   > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> >   > > > > > > > > quattro mailing list
> >   > > > > > > > > quattro at audifans.com
> >   > > > > > > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   >
>
>


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