Super duper fuels, eh?

[Fred Munro]

Grant's point is valid. If a gasoline engine gets too far from the 14.7:1
ideal air/fuel ratio the engine runs like crap or won't run at all. The old
carburetted engines were not as efficient at holding the ideal ratio as the
ECU driven injected engines with O2 sensor feedback, but they weren't that
far off either. For a comparable vehicle, 30% sounds right given that modern
cars have less drag than the older cars, so it takes less power to drive
them at higher speeds.

Fred


-----Original Message-----
From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Grant Lenahan
Sent: August 6, 2007 7:39 AM
To: John S. Lagnese
Cc: brett at cloud9.net; TurboQuattro at shaw.ca; 'William Magliocco';
quattro at audifans.com
Subject: Re: Super duper fuels, eh?


I'm not sure hwo that is relevant tomy point, but there was a
disturbing article in C&ED, comparing late 50s cars with todays gfor
weight and MPGs.

MPGs are up less than 30% for comparable vehicles, held back largely by
Weight which has RISEN.

Grant
On Aug 5, 2007, at 10:24 PM, John S. Lagnese wrote:

> Currently, what gas mileage do you think earlier cars got? Mileage has
> doubled or tripled. I am sure that technology will increase the
> production efficiency.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Lenahan"
> <glenahan at vfemail.net>
> To: "John Lagnese" <jlagnese at massed.net>
> Cc: "'William Magliocco'" <magliocc at rocketmail.com>;
> <brett at cloud9.net>; "'LL - NY'" <larrycleung at gmail.com>;
> <TurboQuattro at shaw.ca>; <quattro at audifans.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Super duper fuels, eh?
>
>
>> No. See earlier posts. Yu save gas at the pump, but use even more
>> making the ethanol.
>>
>> Grant
>> On Aug 4, 2007, at 10:15 PM, John Lagnese wrote:
>>
>>> Even if the 10% ethanol has a net of 5% that's still a 5% decrease
>>> of energy
>>> dependency on others (read that shaky belligerent dictatorships).
>>> You can be
>>> sure as the price of fuel goes up, ethanol production will become
>>> more
>>> efficient and prevalent.
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com
>>> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
>>> Behalf Of LL - NY
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:36 PM
>>> To: William Magliocco
>>> Cc: brett at cloud9.net; TurboQuattro at shaw.ca; quattro at audifans.com
>>> Subject: Re: Super duper fuels, eh?
>>>
>>> It is not. It takes nearly as much fossil fuel energy to produce
>>> the ethanol (from corn, anyway, the Brazilians are much better
>>> off b/c they make their ethanol from cane sugar, which is one
>>> of their main crops) as the energy we get out of it.
>>>
>>> It's a smoke screen, it makes us think we are doing something
>>> about reducing fossil fuel use, atmospheric CO2 levels, and
>>> dependency on foreign oil, but it really doesn't help much. Unless
>>> you're a corn futures broker.
>>>
>>> LL - NY
>>>
>>> On 8/4/07, William Magliocco <magliocc at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, Brett.  The cocktail was burned off in less
>>>> than a week.
>>>>
>>>> The 100 in question is the most well sealed fuel
>>>> system of any car I have owned.  I love to hear the
>>>> air rush in when I pull the cap off at the gas
>>>> station.
>>>>
>>>> Not wishing to start a flame war, though, I am not
>>>> convinced that the US approach to ethanol is energy
>>>> efficient.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Brett Dikeman <quattro at frank.mercea.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:37 PM, William Magliocco wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I once made an ~E-25 cocktail with a 1/4 tank of
>>>>> E-85
>>>>>> then the rest 93 octane premium in my '93 100.
>>>>> Yes,
>>>>>> the engine liked it better, but the wallet did
>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't run more than about 20% alcohol according
>>>>> to the manual, if
>>>>> I recall.  Damages the seals and hoses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, ethanol fuel is hygroscopic like you wouldn't
>>>>> believe.  You
>>>>> have to use it fast, or have a very well sealed
>>>>> system, or you're
>>>>> going to end up with water, and hence rust the
>>>>> injectors, regulator,
>>>>> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of ethanol's many problems as a fuel.  Even in
>>>>> Brazil, the number
>>>>> of ethanol cars is dropping, and it is widely
>>>>> available and (I
>>>>> believe) cheaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brett
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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