Mobil 1 oil weight - with the link - pls read before continuing.

[Al Streicher]

I goggled this HAAS character, got one (1) hit. Oh yeah, he is really well 
versed, on what I don't know? If he is soooo smart why isn't he designing 
engines and working for some car manufacturer or signed on to some oil 
product. His spouting "it's too thick" too often leads me to believe he is a 
wacko. As the clearances tighten, so should the thinness of the viscosity. 
His view is that when the engine is cold, there should be no oil, because it 
is too thick. If he is so worried about prestart lubrication why doesn't he 
just recommend a prestart oil pump 
http://www.pre-luber.com/trailerlifeart.htm . I don't endorse this url or 
it's consept.

The only time an ordinary engine needs prelube is after a rebuild, and the 
only lube on the crank, cam bearings and lobes is assembly lube. Most of the 
time you don't even need a high pressure oil pump in the engine, as it 
pushes too much oil or overkill and a stock pump will do.

Go with what is recommend for your engine and if that is not enough, bracket 
the oil grade, one level up or one level down. Then run this engine for 3000 
miles, tear it down and check all of the clearances. Or listen to some of 
the sage advice you have already been given by "experts" in this forum. An 
"expert" is someone who knows more about his/her auto than just turning the 
key.

Al
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Huw Powell" <audi at humanspeakers.com>
To: "Grant Lenahan" <glenahan at vfemail.net>
Cc: <john at westcoastgarage.net>; "quattrolist" <quattro at audifans.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Mobil 1 oil weight - with the link - pls read before 
continuing.


>
>> No, you are missing my point, and Haas'.
>
> Let's start off with who this Haas guy is.
>
> The only credential I ran into in his wriitngs was that he is/was doing
> a surgical reseidency.
>
>> If you find his NUMBERS wrong, fine.
>
> I found his "numbers" unclearly presented.  I didn't see a database of
> real lab-type testing, just lots of little tables.
>
>> But he specifically offers data to disprove that multi-vis
>> is sifficient.  All oils, even 0W-20, are too thick until oil
>> approaches 100degC.
>
> So we need -20W-10 oil...
>
>> Multi-weight as today, is insufficient. That is
>> the point I have been trying to make. Please read the paper - i'm
>> trying to help out with info that really convinced me.
>
> OK, it convinced *you*.  I found it mostly unreadable BS.  The ten part
> thing at the url below, anyway.  Although, the last section, where the
> oil boards are, with requests for money, was pretty clear.
>
> "Fact: The higher the temperature, the greater the wear, all other
> things being equal." - Motor Oil 108
>
>>>Again, the reason for multi vis oils.  Your premise is that you will
>>>always have better flow/fluid transport with lower vis oils.  That
>>>isn't true.
>>
>> Yes it is.  if you dont believe me, read Haas' paper, and the recent
>> SAE paper on low-temp flow.  If you dont have access to SAE papers,
>> read Haas' summary, he posted it on Ferrari chat.
>
> Url please?
>
> So far I do not see Haas as being any sort of authority based on the
> website.  Just a guy with a dilletante perspective, who also drives a
> car nothing like what I could ever afford.
>
>>>Look at what you said, "with insufficient pressure and pump
>>>volume"...There are the proviso's...do you think Porsche, Audi,
>>>Ferrari, MB ensured that there oil pumps were designed to provide the
>>>pressure and flow requirements for the oils specified?
>>
>> You apparently have not read the article I pointed you too, whcih has
>> all these data, and makes  my point.
>
> Why not say *which* article and what line/paragraph if you are going to
> cite it as a reference?
>
>> If you disagree, and you sound
>> pretty familiar with the principles, counter his numbers with yours.
>> In fact, he uses real pressure and flow data from his 575 maranello.
>> So the quick answer is "yes, I do think that, and in fact, Haas
>> demonstrates that with measurements"
>
> On a "575 Maranello", whatever that is.
>
>> http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/
>>
>> Read it and come back. I listen, btu I want to see these specifically
>> contradicted or supported.
>
> I want to see clear quotes (and their locations) that are backed up with
>  data that support them, not a ten file semi-literate screed about why
> everyone else is wrong.
>
> -- 
> Huw Powell
>
> http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi
>
> http://www.humanthoughts.org/
> _______________________________________________
> quattro mailing list
> quattro at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/quattro
> ---
> Watch this space for ads :)
>