Phil Payne - RIP

Thu Dec 13 12:14:50 PST 2012

Phil moved his site some years ago - it's now at 
http://www.isham-research.co.uk
For those who have been asking about what will happen to it, it has been 
archived by a number of people and there are a number of plans to keep it 
alive in one form or another.

Jim Haseltine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doyt W. Echelberger" <doyt at buckeye-express.com>
To: <quattro at audifans.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Phil Payne - RIP

>I was most honored when Phil asked me to cooperate with him in writing a 
>paper on how to buy a used Ur-Quattro. That was back about 2001. He posted 
>it on his web site...Kerbside Motors. The site is down now.
>
> Here is my tribute to Phil. It may get rejected by the editors, but I 
> think it deserves to live on somewhere, maybe here on the quattro list. 
> RIP Phil...:
>
>
> Originally posted at    http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html
>
> Checks when buying a used quattro
>
> Thinking of buying a used quattro? This is something to approach with 
> caution. First - don't be misled into believing that the quattro is the 
> cheapest true supercar available. It is - but only until you start 
> maintaining it. Some of the bits are expensive, and some procedures long 
> and complicated - taking the cylinder head off takes a nominal ten hours' 
> labor. And it's fun to drive. Especially in winter - a true all-year 
> fun-to-drive car - though you do need to watch the tires. The law of 
> quattro physics - four times nothing is just the same as two times 
> nothing.
>
> Beware of parts costs for the 20V - Audi has no exchange parts program and 
> everything has to be bought at the full retail price - and the Sport, 
> since the production run was only ca. 200 cars almost 20 years ago.
>
> So - found an quattro advertised? Run a Carfax on it and find out what 
> they know - it could save tears further down the road.
>
> Before going to see the car, talk to the owner on the phone and ask basic 
> questions about ownership history, accidents, insurance claims and 
> maintenance. Encourage discussion of repairs and upkeep and how the car 
> was used. Ask about rust, body damage, interior appearance, how the car 
> runs and what needs to be done to it. How original is it? If it's on 
> aftermarket rims, are the original rims still available? Why is it being 
> sold? What is the mileage? Is he/she the original owner? What are the 
> tires like? What is the asking price? The answers should allow you to 
> decide if it's worth going to see the car and test drive it. Insist on 
> seeing the car at a dealer's or at the address to which it is registered - 
> public car parks and mall parking lots are a no-no - and insist that the 
> engine be cold.
>
> Expect a sheaf of repair invoices several inches think. A service history 
> document ("Full Service History") is very easily forged and the level of 
> skill available even at Audi main dealers is very limited these days. Get 
> an expert to check the receipts - a car with a clutch changed at 140k 
> miles and the brake accumulator at 160k miles sounds genuine - but clutch 
> at 80k miles and brake accumulator at 100k miles suggests creative 
> writing.
>
> Inspect the car in both daylight and fluorescent light if possible - 
> sometimes mismatches are obvious in one and not the other. Walk around the 
> car and eyeball everything visible from the outside. Don't be afraid to 
> run your fingertips over all the paintwork - sometimes things that cannot 
> be seen properly can be felt easily.
>
> Open the hood and look around the engine compartment, pull the dipstick 
> and feel the oil. An MB or RR has a translucent hydraulic oil reservoir on 
> the firewall - the contents must be green (brownish with age) but not red. 
> WRs can use either the later green hydraulic oil or ATF fluid which is 
> red, but ATF must not be used in the later cars. Check under the car for 
> leaks and that the undertrays are in place. Using sight and touch, check 
> along the fuel lines for leaks and corrosion, paying special attention to 
> where they pass through rubber mounting bushes at the back of the engine 
> bay. Sniff your fingers after running them over all the lines. The smell 
> of gasoline indicates pinhole corrosion damage. Then open the trunk and 
> check for water - especially under the carpet on the right - dirt and the 
> spare tire and toolkit. If a CD changer is fitted, has it blocked the 
> sunroof storage slot? While walking round, check trim, glass and panel 
> fit. Feel the brake discs' ridges and gouges.
>
> Open the doors and check the entry sills and lower door edges for rust or 
> repairs, while looking over the rubber seals. Sit in both seats and check 
> trim, seatbelts, seat runners and seat folding catch, if so equipped. 
> Listen for squeaks in the top of the seat back. Check the handbrake. Check 
> the windshield for chips and cracks. Some owners use Rain-X on the glass, 
> to disguise sandblasting and small defects.
>
> From the driver's seat, touch and operate all the cabin controls and 
> gadgets. Central locking, power windows, sunroof and boot catch. Check for 
> leaks by feeling the carpet. Test pedal pressure for brakes and pedal 
> movement for clutch, listening for strange sounds. Reach up above the back 
> of the brake pedal and feel for clutch fluid leaks. Go through the gears 
> at rest to check shifter linkages.
>
> Switch on the ignition but don't start the engine.  This will allow you to 
> check that the proper number of warning lights illuminate - unscrupulous 
> sellers have been known to take out bulbs warning of thousands of dollars 
> needed for repairs. If it's a WR model (green dashboard) the synthetic 
> voice should spring into action when the 'Check' button is depressed. If 
> not, the seller may be 
> <http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/wr_voice.html>trying to hide 
> something serious. Then check the gadgets that only work with the ignition 
> on - lights high and low beam, dash lights and adjustment, wipers, heater, 
> heated seats, a/c (if fitted) and radio.
>
> Before starting the engine, ask if it has run recently. If it's been 
> stored for over a year, make sure the owner accepts responsibility for 
> starting it, as a cambelt failure could seriously damage the engine.
>
> Have the owner start the car while you watch the exhaust pipe. Look for a 
> puff of blue, black, or white smoke. Listen to the engine warming up from 
> cold and check the idle speeds. Tappet rattle that goes away in a few 
> minutes is not a problem. Listen especially for exhaust leaks and ticking 
> from manifold cracks. This can be a difficult area - it has been known for 
> unscrupulous owners faced with the significant cost of an exhaust manifold 
> replacement to weld up the cracks and sell the car - only removing the 
> right headlight and accordion hose will let you inspect the sites where 
> welding may have been done. Let the engine warm up a few minutes, 
> listening for changes to the engine noise, and then do a slow test drive 
> in the parking lot and local streets and then around the owner's town. 
> This will include a moving test of the differential locks. Watch the 
> speedometer and trip computer to see that they work. Does the rear window 
> defroster heat up? Strange noises on bumps? Taut and firm, or loose and 
> sloppy? Power steering feel and sound? Alternator belt squeal with full 
> electric load? Try starting and stopping and run through the gears - check 
> out the feel of the clutch, brakes and accelerator systems, and the 
> steering and suspension. Push the ABS switch and check that the warning 
> light comes on. Switch the ABS back on and check that the light goes out 
> again. Turn some slow doughnuts or figure-of-eight turns in a parking lot 
> to test for wheel bearing noise. Open the driver's window and do some slow 
> fore-and-aft movements to see if the brake calipers click. Once the car is 
> warm, the a/c and blower can be tested properly. Back at the owner's home, 
> pull on the handbrake - check that the warning light comes on - and see if 
> the clutch slips against it before shutting down. Keep the engine running, 
> and get out of the car with the handbrake set. Turn the front wheels onto 
> full lock so that you can see the wear patterns.
>
> If the test drive indicated sloppy shocks/suspension, bounce the corners 
> and wiggle each wheel for play. Examine front and rear tire treads for 
> depth, feathering, cupping, unusual wear at edges or in center.. Feel 
> temperature of tires and wheels for heat due to dragging brakes.
>
> If you're still serious, tell the owner exactly that and take the car out 
> for another half hour, and drive at higher speeds, checking passing 
> systems and wander tendencies. Watch the gauges for under/over heating, 
> and check both the horn and the audio system. Accelerate hard from ca. 30 
> mph in third gear at least once. Stop somewhere for ten minutes on a clean 
> surface and check underneath for leaks. Water dripping from the air 
> conditioning evaporator is normal. Turn the steering wheel onto full lock 
> and look behind the front right wheel at the oil cooler lines. If they 
> show fitting corrosion, they may rupture and dump all your oil in about 5 
> seconds.
>
> On an MB or RR, with the engine stopped, pull the connectors off the 
> low-pressure warning switch mounted diagonally on the brake pressure 
> servo - between the master cylinder and the bulkhead - and attach a 
> continuity tester. Press the brake pedal repeatedly, as if making an 
> emergency stop - if the switch closes after three or fewer depressions the 
> hydraulic accumulator will have to be changed before the car can safely be 
> driven.
>
> Even if you have to pay for it, fill the fuel tank to the top - because an 
> almost empty tank doesn't reveal any leaks that exist, especially where 
> the top and bottom moulds of the tank meet and at the neck. Considering 
> that you're planning on spending a lot of money - why not put the car 
> through an inspection on a lift? For thirty dollars or so, it goes on a 
> ramp and yet another experienced pair of eyes gets to look at it from 
> underneath. Who knows - he/she might just spot something you haven't 
> noticed.  Slip the mechanic a tenner and ask them to check the bushings, 
> CV joint boots, fuel lines, brake lines and calipers, fuel pump mountings, 
> exhaust pipes, and look for undercarriage damage that might reveal a 
> crash. It's amazing, considering how much of a quattro's unique selling 
> propositions are under the car, just how few people take a look there 
> before parting with their hard-earned cash.
> <http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html>
> After the drive, decide if you want to meet the selling price, negotiate, 
> or call in another expert for a further opinion and thorough 
> model-specific diagnostic tests. Since you are almost ready to own the 
> car, you might as well verify what it will cost to put it in proper shape 
> for several more years of trouble-free driving. Better to know this now, 
> and include the expense in your cost evaluation.  These might include:
>    * Paperwork reconciliation
>    * Compression test
>    * Intercooler hose debris check
>    * Startup from cold - exhaust manifold
>    * Trunk hinge rust
>    * Oil cooler line leakage and corrosion
>    * Boost gauge run
>    * Dipstick stumble test
>    * ECU diagnostics (MB and RR)
>    * Suspension bushings
>    * Propeller shaft universal joints
>    * Constant velocity joint boots
>    * Front and rear track rods
>    * Brake carrier bolts
>    * Hydraulic brake assist
>    * Clutch master cylinder
>
> Electronic odometers can be 'clocked' or wound back more easily than 
> mechanical ones and it's worth checking the mileage with Carfax and/or any 
> old inspection certificates on hand. Regrettably,  'full dealer service 
> histories' are very easy to forge - receipts are much more reliable. These 
> should show a timing belt change within the last 60,000 miles or five 
> years - if they don't, consider flatbedding the car home rather than 
> driving it.
>
> Thanks are due to <mailto:Doyt at nwonline.net>Doyt W. Echelberger for the 
> initial text, which was shamelessly stolen from a post he made to the 
> <http://www.audifans.com/>Audi quattro mailing list.
>
> And finally...
> If it says ...
> It means ...
> Rough condition
> Too bad to lie about
> Parts car
> Beyond repair
> Immaculate
> Washed yesterday
> Engine quiet
> When switched off
> Needs minor overhaul
> Needs all moving parts replaced
> Burns no oil
> Major oil leak
> Rebuilt engine
> Reassembled duff engine quickly
> Can be driven away
> Owner lives on hill
> Drive it anywhere
> Just don't ever bring it back
> Desirable classic
> No one wants it
> Rare classic
> No one wanted them even back then
> Stored 20 years
> In a field
> Ran when stored
> Won't start
>
> <http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html>Kerbside Motors Home 
> Page and Contact Information
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> At 01:47 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote:
>>Long time Audifans (Quattro list) member Phil Payne ...
>>
>>http://forums.quattroworld.com/quattro/msgs/9408.phtml
>>
>>He was a very active Audifans participant for many years, not so much 
>>recently.
>>
>>Dave C.
>>_______________________________________________
>
>
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