Phil Payne - RIP

[Doyt W. Echelberger]

I was most honored when Phil asked me to cooperate with him in writing a 
paper on how to buy a used Ur-Quattro. That was back about 2001. He posted 
it on his web site...Kerbside Motors. The site is down now.

Here is my tribute to Phil. It may get rejected by the editors, but I think 
it deserves to live on somewhere, maybe here on the quattro list. RIP Phil...:


Originally posted at    http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html

Checks when buying a used quattro

Thinking of buying a used quattro? This is something to approach with 
caution. First - don't be misled into believing that the quattro is the 
cheapest true supercar available. It is - but only until you start 
maintaining it. Some of the bits are expensive, and some procedures long 
and complicated - taking the cylinder head off takes a nominal ten hours' 
labor. And it's fun to drive. Especially in winter - a true all-year 
fun-to-drive car - though you do need to watch the tires. The law of 
quattro physics - four times nothing is just the same as two times nothing.

Beware of parts costs for the 20V - Audi has no exchange parts program and 
everything has to be bought at the full retail price - and the Sport, since 
the production run was only ca. 200 cars almost 20 years ago.

So - found an quattro advertised? Run a Carfax on it and find out what they 
know - it could save tears further down the road.

Before going to see the car, talk to the owner on the phone and ask basic 
questions about ownership history, accidents, insurance claims and 
maintenance. Encourage discussion of repairs and upkeep and how the car was 
used. Ask about rust, body damage, interior appearance, how the car runs 
and what needs to be done to it. How original is it? If it's on aftermarket 
rims, are the original rims still available? Why is it being sold? What is 
the mileage? Is he/she the original owner? What are the tires like? What is 
the asking price? The answers should allow you to decide if it's worth 
going to see the car and test drive it. Insist on seeing the car at a 
dealer's or at the address to which it is registered - public car parks and 
mall parking lots are a no-no - and insist that the engine be cold.

Expect a sheaf of repair invoices several inches think. A service history 
document ("Full Service History") is very easily forged and the level of 
skill available even at Audi main dealers is very limited these days. Get 
an expert to check the receipts - a car with a clutch changed at 140k miles 
and the brake accumulator at 160k miles sounds genuine - but clutch at 80k 
miles and brake accumulator at 100k miles suggests creative writing.

Inspect the car in both daylight and fluorescent light if possible - 
sometimes mismatches are obvious in one and not the other. Walk around the 
car and eyeball everything visible from the outside. Don't be afraid to run 
your fingertips over all the paintwork - sometimes things that cannot be 
seen properly can be felt easily.

Open the hood and look around the engine compartment, pull the dipstick and 
feel the oil. An MB or RR has a translucent hydraulic oil reservoir on the 
firewall - the contents must be green (brownish with age) but not red. WRs 
can use either the later green hydraulic oil or ATF fluid which is red, but 
ATF must not be used in the later cars. Check under the car for leaks and 
that the undertrays are in place. Using sight and touch, check along the 
fuel lines for leaks and corrosion, paying special attention to where they 
pass through rubber mounting bushes at the back of the engine bay. Sniff 
your fingers after running them over all the lines. The smell of gasoline 
indicates pinhole corrosion damage. Then open the trunk and check for water 
- especially under the carpet on the right - dirt and the spare tire and 
toolkit. If a CD changer is fitted, has it blocked the sunroof storage 
slot? While walking round, check trim, glass and panel fit. Feel the brake 
discs' ridges and gouges.

Open the doors and check the entry sills and lower door edges for rust or 
repairs, while looking over the rubber seals. Sit in both seats and check 
trim, seatbelts, seat runners and seat folding catch, if so equipped. 
Listen for squeaks in the top of the seat back. Check the handbrake. Check 
the windshield for chips and cracks. Some owners use Rain-X on the glass, 
to disguise sandblasting and small defects.

 From the driver's seat, touch and operate all the cabin controls and 
gadgets. Central locking, power windows, sunroof and boot catch. Check for 
leaks by feeling the carpet. Test pedal pressure for brakes and pedal 
movement for clutch, listening for strange sounds. Reach up above the back 
of the brake pedal and feel for clutch fluid leaks. Go through the gears at 
rest to check shifter linkages.

Switch on the ignition but don't start the engine.  This will allow you to 
check that the proper number of warning lights illuminate - unscrupulous 
sellers have been known to take out bulbs warning of thousands of dollars 
needed for repairs. If it's a WR model (green dashboard) the synthetic 
voice should spring into action when the 'Check' button is depressed. If 
not, the seller may be 
<http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/wr_voice.html>trying to hide 
something serious. Then check the gadgets that only work with the ignition 
on - lights high and low beam, dash lights and adjustment, wipers, heater, 
heated seats, a/c (if fitted) and radio.

Before starting the engine, ask if it has run recently. If it's been stored 
for over a year, make sure the owner accepts responsibility for starting 
it, as a cambelt failure could seriously damage the engine.

Have the owner start the car while you watch the exhaust pipe. Look for a 
puff of blue, black, or white smoke. Listen to the engine warming up from 
cold and check the idle speeds. Tappet rattle that goes away in a few 
minutes is not a problem. Listen especially for exhaust leaks and ticking 
from manifold cracks. This can be a difficult area - it has been known for 
unscrupulous owners faced with the significant cost of an exhaust manifold 
replacement to weld up the cracks and sell the car - only removing the 
right headlight and accordion hose will let you inspect the sites where 
welding may have been done. Let the engine warm up a few minutes, listening 
for changes to the engine noise, and then do a slow test drive in the 
parking lot and local streets and then around the owner's town. This will 
include a moving test of the differential locks. Watch the speedometer and 
trip computer to see that they work. Does the rear window defroster heat 
up? Strange noises on bumps? Taut and firm, or loose and sloppy? Power 
steering feel and sound? Alternator belt squeal with full electric load? 
Try starting and stopping and run through the gears - check out the feel of 
the clutch, brakes and accelerator systems, and the steering and 
suspension. Push the ABS switch and check that the warning light comes on. 
Switch the ABS back on and check that the light goes out again. Turn some 
slow doughnuts or figure-of-eight turns in a parking lot to test for wheel 
bearing noise. Open the driver's window and do some slow fore-and-aft 
movements to see if the brake calipers click. Once the car is warm, the a/c 
and blower can be tested properly. Back at the owner's home, pull on the 
handbrake - check that the warning light comes on - and see if the clutch 
slips against it before shutting down. Keep the engine running, and get out 
of the car with the handbrake set. Turn the front wheels onto full lock so 
that you can see the wear patterns.

If the test drive indicated sloppy shocks/suspension, bounce the corners 
and wiggle each wheel for play. Examine front and rear tire treads for 
depth, feathering, cupping, unusual wear at edges or in center.. Feel 
temperature of tires and wheels for heat due to dragging brakes.

If you're still serious, tell the owner exactly that and take the car out 
for another half hour, and drive at higher speeds, checking passing systems 
and wander tendencies. Watch the gauges for under/over heating, and check 
both the horn and the audio system. Accelerate hard from ca. 30 mph in 
third gear at least once. Stop somewhere for ten minutes on a clean surface 
and check underneath for leaks. Water dripping from the air conditioning 
evaporator is normal. Turn the steering wheel onto full lock and look 
behind the front right wheel at the oil cooler lines. If they show fitting 
corrosion, they may rupture and dump all your oil in about 5 seconds.

On an MB or RR, with the engine stopped, pull the connectors off the 
low-pressure warning switch mounted diagonally on the brake pressure servo 
- between the master cylinder and the bulkhead - and attach a continuity 
tester. Press the brake pedal repeatedly, as if making an emergency stop - 
if the switch closes after three or fewer depressions the hydraulic 
accumulator will have to be changed before the car can safely be driven.

Even if you have to pay for it, fill the fuel tank to the top - because an 
almost empty tank doesn't reveal any leaks that exist, especially where the 
top and bottom moulds of the tank meet and at the neck. Considering that 
you're planning on spending a lot of money - why not put the car through an 
inspection on a lift? For thirty dollars or so, it goes on a ramp and yet 
another experienced pair of eyes gets to look at it from underneath. Who 
knows - he/she might just spot something you haven't noticed.  Slip the 
mechanic a tenner and ask them to check the bushings, CV joint boots, fuel 
lines, brake lines and calipers, fuel pump mountings, exhaust pipes, and 
look for undercarriage damage that might reveal a crash. It's amazing, 
considering how much of a quattro's unique selling propositions are under 
the car, just how few people take a look there before parting with their 
hard-earned cash.
<http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html>
After the drive, decide if you want to meet the selling price, negotiate, 
or call in another expert for a further opinion and thorough model-specific 
diagnostic tests. Since you are almost ready to own the car, you might as 
well verify what it will cost to put it in proper shape for several more 
years of trouble-free driving. Better to know this now, and include the 
expense in your cost evaluation.  These might include:
    * Paperwork reconciliation
    * Compression test
    * Intercooler hose debris check
    * Startup from cold - exhaust manifold
    * Trunk hinge rust
    * Oil cooler line leakage and corrosion
    * Boost gauge run
    * Dipstick stumble test
    * ECU diagnostics (MB and RR)
    * Suspension bushings
    * Propeller shaft universal joints
    * Constant velocity joint boots
    * Front and rear track rods
    * Brake carrier bolts
    * Hydraulic brake assist
    * Clutch master cylinder

Electronic odometers can be 'clocked' or wound back more easily than 
mechanical ones and it's worth checking the mileage with Carfax and/or any 
old inspection certificates on hand. Regrettably,  'full dealer service 
histories' are very easy to forge - receipts are much more reliable. These 
should show a timing belt change within the last 60,000 miles or five years 
- if they don't, consider flatbedding the car home rather than driving it.

Thanks are due to <mailto:Doyt at nwonline.net>Doyt W. Echelberger for the 
initial text, which was shamelessly stolen from a post he made to the 
<http://www.audifans.com/>Audi quattro mailing list.

And finally...
If it says ...
It means ...
Rough condition
Too bad to lie about
Parts car
Beyond repair
Immaculate
Washed yesterday
Engine quiet
When switched off
Needs minor overhaul
Needs all moving parts replaced
Burns no oil
Major oil leak
Rebuilt engine
Reassembled duff engine quickly
Can be driven away
Owner lives on hill
Drive it anywhere
Just don't ever bring it back
Desirable classic
No one wants it
Rare classic
No one wanted them even back then
Stored 20 years
In a field
Ran when stored
Won't start

<http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/index.html>Kerbside Motors Home Page 
and Contact Information


 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
At 01:47 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote:
>Long time Audifans (Quattro list) member Phil Payne ...
>
>http://forums.quattroworld.com/quattro/msgs/9408.phtml
>
>He was a very active Audifans participant for many years, not so much 
>recently.
>
>Dave C.
>_______________________________________________