'91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start

John Cody Forbes cody at 5000tq.com
Fri Jul 5 18:52:34 PDT 2013 

At this point I wouldn't worry about putting oil down the plug holes. If you 
can just get it to fire and run for 30 seconds the cylinders will be plenty 
oiled. I wouldn't expect an inexperienced person to have much luck getting 
the oil in the right place to be honest.

If you want to try anyways I would say roughly an ounce (roughly a 
large-mouth bottle's cap full) in each cylinder. You'll want to pour it in 
with a tube of some sort (drinking straw maybe, an oiling can would be best 
if you have one) to get the oil on the walls of the cylinder, not on top of 
the piston where will just pool. LEAVE THE SPARK PLUGS OUT after pouring in 
the oil and spin the engine with the starter for ~10 seconds to be certain 
that any excess oil has a place to escape.

-Cody Forbes

-----Original Message----- 
From: Christopher Gharibo
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 7:54 PM
To: Grant Lenahan
Cc: Cody Forbes ; <quattro at audifans.com>
Subject: Re: '91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start

The oil has clearly thinned, probably from fuel. I misspoke. I am beginning 
think cylinder walls being washed down w fuel is the culprit.

The engine is now making closer-to-normal sounds as opposed to free 
spinning.

I will buy starting fluid. Exactly how much oil should I put down each plug 
hole. I don't know how to recognize fouled plugs. I am considering replacing 
the plugs as well.

Thank you for the help.

On Jul 5, 2013, at 7:38 PM, Grant Lenahan <glenahan at vfemail.net> wrote:

> Agre with everything here.  Thinning of oil from cranking is so 
> impossible!
>
> Oil thins from heat and you have almost none
>
> Grant
> On Jul 5, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Cody Forbes wrote:
>
>> Normally I would approach this much more carefully, but since you already 
>> cranked it quite a lot if damage were to be done it already would have 
>> happened. Since it sputtered and now sounds like its pumping I'm still 
>> sucking with dry cylinder walls. Maybe the mechanic lied about testing 
>> with some oil or maybe he didn't use enough, who knows. This is the thing 
>> that makes the most sense by far on an engine that ran fine, then sat for 
>> a while, and suddenly has low compression.
>>
>> I say charge the battery and try starting again. Do give the starter a 
>> rest between attempts so it can cool off. Some ether/starting fluid may 
>> be a good idea to get it to fire up long enough to build oil pressure.
>>
>> Oil won't "thin out" from lots of cranking. If the engine is dumping tons 
>> of fuel in that would thin it out, but if it sputtered that is unlikely 
>> to have occurred because the plugs would be fouled long before the oil 
>> thinned. Change the oil after you get it running.
>>
>> -Cody Forbes (mobile)
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2013, at 5:04 PM, "Christopher Gharibo" <cgharibo at usa.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The distributor rotor is turning with the engine. There are sparks in 
>>> the
>>> distributor cap while the engine is turning.
>>>
>>> I put the distributor cap back and proceeded to perform extended 
>>> cranking.
>>> After about a minute or two the engine started to catch and crank semi 
>>> normal
>>> but did not start. The engine literally started to make pumping sounds. 
>>> By
>>> this time, the battery was almost dead and is now recharging.
>>>
>>> The oil level is fine but I think it has thinned quite a bit from all 
>>> the
>>> cranking. What should I do now? Will the thinned oil be a problem? 
>>> Should I
>>> put thick oil in there?
>>>
>>> I am excited. Thanks.
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> Received: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 03:15:46 PM EDT
>>> From: "John Lagnese" <jlagnese at massed.net>
>>> To: "'Christopher Gharibo'" <cgharibo at usa.net>, 
>>> <quattro at audifans.com>
>>> Subject: RE: '91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start
>>>
>>>> Check the rotor first, then do a compression check.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: quattro-bounces at audifans.com 
>>>> [mailto:quattro-bounces at audifans.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Christopher Gharibo
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 10:39 AM
>>>> To: quattro at audifans.com
>>>> Subject: Re: '91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start
>>>>
>>>> I just got the 100q towed back to me. This is my opportunity to learn 
>>>> the
>>>> inner-workings of the engine.
>>>>
>>>> It's upsetting that local repair shops do not take my '91 audis (CQ & 
>>>> 100q)
>>>> seriously. They're in great shape. I hope doctors don't behave this way 
>>>> to
>>>> their older patients.
>>>>
>>>> I will report back and thanks to everyone.
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> Received: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:25:10 AM EDT
>>>> From: Joshua Van Tol <josh at spiny.com>
>>>> To: Christopher Gharibo <cgharibo at usa.net>Cc: Quattro List
>>>> <quattro at audifans.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: '91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start
>>>>
>>>>> Christopher,
>>>>>
>>>>> Something that happened to me a long time ago is nagging at my memory.
>>>>> Since others have pointed out that this is a non-interference engine, 
>>>>> the
>>>>> problem basically has to be one of these things:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.) The cam/crank timing is off. This could be caused by a broken 
>>>>> keyway
>>>> on
>>>>> the crank gear. This isn't likely, but possible.
>>>>> 2.) You have debris from the injector shrouds caught in several intake
>>>>> valves. This should eventually clear with extended cranking as the 
>>>>> bits
>>>> and
>>>>> pieces get mashed up.
>>>>> 3.) Last but not least (this is the one that happened to me) the
>>> hydraulic
>>>>> lifters could have bled down. This will result in the valves not 
>>>>> opening..
>>>>> When this happened to me, the car sat for a month with the nose up.
>>>>> Something about this allowed the lifters to bleed down. I had to crank 
>>>>> it
>>>>> forever to get it to start, before it started, and for several minutes 
>>>>> of
>>>>> cranking it had no compression. Compression gradually returned, it 
>>>>> fired
>>>> on
>>>>> a few cylinders, and then ran, with lots of lifter noise. It took 20
>>>>> minutes or more to get the lifters re-primed. On that note, the car 
>>>>> does
>>>>> have oil in it right? Because if you drained it and forgot to replace 
>>>>> it,
>>>>> then there would be no oil to be pumped into the lifters to re-prime
>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggestion: Check the oil, make sure the battery is fully charged, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> crank the heck out of it, you should probably pull the fuel pump relay 
>>>>> so
>>>>> you don't foul the plugs. See if anything changes. If that doesn't 
>>>>> work,
>>>>> pull the valve cover, and see if the lifters are mushy, and report 
>>>>> back
>>> to
>>>>> the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope this is helpful to you. I really think this is a simple fix, as
>>>>> others have opined.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:24 AM, Christopher Gharibo
>>>> <cgharibo at usa.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Huw,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My mechanic wants the car to go away. No doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am getting the car towed back to me and haven't given up. This was 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> great no-worry car for errands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I lack knowledge and experience re many of the suggestions.
>>>> Nevertheless,
>>>>>> I will go through many of the suggestions and report back with
>>> hopefully
>>>>>> the culprit and the good news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: quattro-request at audifans.com
>>>>>>> Date: July 3, 2013, 12:03:56 AM EDT
>>>>>>> To: quattro at audifans.com
>>>>>>> Subject: quattro Digest, Vol 117, Issue 6
>>>>>>> Reply-To: quattro at audifans.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2013 22:03:25 -0400
>>>>>>> From: Huw Powell <audi at humanspeakers.com>
>>>>>>> To: quattro at audifans.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: '91 100q 5 injectors replaced - now car wont start
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <51D3866D.4060003 at humanspeakers.com>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2013 8:16 PM, Christopher Gharibo wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am thinking about going through the injector installation and the
>>>>>>>> suggestions again. This car was running little rough, stalling at
>>>> idle,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> otherwise running fine before it underwent the injector 
>>>>>>>> replacement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can a poor seal between the injector-shroud or the shroud-engine
>>>> cause
>>>>>> loss of
>>>>>>>> compression on a particular cylinder and loss of cranking cycle?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your mechanic is either incompetent or simply wants this car to go
>>>> away.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> quattro mailing list
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>>>>>> http://www.audifans.com/kb/List_information
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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