[s-cars] Torsens is there a difference ??!!

[Robert Pastore]

Great, great topic!

Rob:
Would the difference between a 'J' and an 'H' then be this different shaft
diameter?
If so, would that make the 'J' ( as used in the 95.5) the strongest of the
lot (but potentially put too much stress on other components)?

Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert B. [mailto:rbraun at foni.net]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 3:56 PM
To: Charlie Smith
Cc: Audi S Car List
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Torsens is there a difference ??!!


Hi Charlie:

There are 2 different mainshaft designs, aside from the narrow and wide
ones.

The difference is in the area between where the gear sits and the front of
the trans. I'll have to take some pictures of the area I'm talking about to
explain this, but I have seen the difference with my own eyes and will try
to describe it to you. The mainshaft is long, with the first gear sitting
about 2/3 of the way at the back. There is a section of the mainshaft about
a foot long before where first sits that is either fat or skinny. I'll take
some pictures to show you what I mean.

The fatter mainshaft is used on the lower torque cars and the skinny
mainshaft is used on the high torque cars. The reason that Audi uses as
thinner shaft for the higher torque cars is to allow the shaft to twist a
tiny bit and act as a "shock absorber". I have a new 105H sitting at Mr.
Kluge's and will take a photo of it. The fatter mainshaft 105J is actually
stronger, but when the trans is at rest and the torque of say, a V6 TDI or
RS2 gets transmitted through the trans to first gear, the Torsen and
eventually the wheels, the fatter mainshaft doesn't flex so the torque shock
gets transmitted through to first gear. This is how he explained it to me.

I'll have some more pics for your website in about 2-3 weeks so that you can
see the difference I'm talking about.

HTH, Rob

*************

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Smith" <charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org>
To: <rbraun at foni.net>
Cc: "Audi S Car List" <s-car-list at audifans.com>; "Charlie Smith"
<charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Torsens is there a difference ??!!


> Earlier, rbraun at foni.net wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bob:
> >
> > This is perfectly correct! It is one of the reasons
> > that Audi was forced to use a wider first beginning
> > in 1995 with the RS2.
> >
> > BTW, ALL mainshafts are hardened!! Charlie's info
> > about a wide, non hardened mainshaft is wrong.
> > Mr. Kluge laughed when I asked him why only
> > some mainshafts are hardened. He told me that all
> > mainshafts are hardened or they would wear out
> > after 20,000 miles.
>
> Hi Robert -
>
> I may be wrong guessing that the difference is a 'hardening'.  There
> are four different mainshaft part numbers.
>
>    1st gear part #      Characteristic
>    ---------------      --------------
>    01E 311 105 G        narrow
>    01E 311 105 E        narrow, hardened
>    01E 311 105 J        wide
>    01E 311 105 H        wide, hardened
>
> The two that I refer to as 'hardened' were used only in the higher
> horsepower cars.  The 105 E was first used in the S2 and the V8 powered
> cars; then about 1995 the 105 H was used in those cars along with the RS2
> and the larger TDI cars.
>
> The other two mainshafts (105 G and 105 J) were used in the other
> (usually) lower powered cars, such as the UrS4/UrS6 and even the
> 2.7L V6tt.
>
> There certainly must be a difference in the E & H mainshafts used in
> the higher torque cars.  If it was not extra special hardening, could
> you please ask Mr. Kluge what is different.
>
> As a footnote, it is certain that all gears are hardened, or as Mr. Kluge
> says, they would last no time at all.  But there are lots of things that
> can be done to toughen metal surfaces - that fall in the category of
> 'hardening'.  An example of non heat treat hardening is the hardening by
> nitride impregnation that Porsche used on surfaces for some time.  I refer
> you to an early example in the bearing journal surface treatment that
> Porsche used on their Super 90 crankshaft about 1962/63.
>
>     - Charlie
>
>
>   Charlie Smith   charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org  614-471-1418
>   http://www.elektro.com/~charlie      Columbus Ohio   USA
>   http://www.elektro.com/~audi     photos & technical info
>
>   95 S6 Quattro  -  24 PSI, RS2 6 speed, and other features
>   97 Dodge Ram   -  35 PSI, w/Cummins turbo diesel
>
>
>

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