[s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU software GP and I. A. VS MTM

[Robert Pastore]

Kirby:

I have to strongly disagree.

The pressure transducers measure absolute pressure and out a linear voltage
from 0-5vdc.  So the stock 2.5 bar sensor can only read 1.5 bar of boost or
21.75 PSI.  The reality of the sensor is that it peaks around 4.85 vdc, and
if to the maximum, loses it linearity.  The ECU then uses this voltage
signal to determine boost level. Once the signal loses linearity, you are
asking for trouble because you lose control of boost.  BTW, the TAP 3.2 bar
pressure transducer is nothing more than a bosch 2 bar transducer, with 2
resistors added to try to emulate the output of the 3 bar sensor.  I've
mapped the output of many different sensors, and can assure you , the TAP
sensor is not linear and doesn't work.


> All of the Hot k24 chipsets need the 3 bar pressure transducer.  I posted
a stage 1+ boost map that I produced in excel directly from the chip'hex
dump to the old s-list yahoo files.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/s-car-list/files/stage%201%20plus%20%20boost%2
0map.xls  This chipset has a target boost level at full throttle  above the
limit of the 2.5 bar sensor from idle all the way up to 5750 rpm.

>Playing with different chipset, modifying code, cataloging "what is what"
has become a hobby/obsession.   I can tell you without reservation that if
you run a chipset that uses the 2.5 bar sensor (either with a stock k24 or a
bigger turbo) you are foregoing a huge torque/HP advantage that the MTM 1+ (
or whatever Ned is calling his 3 bar sensor version) gives.  If you'd like,
I can map and post the 2.5 bar chipset map from hoppen or Tap for
comparison.

regards,
Bob




-----Original Message-----
From: Kirby Smith [mailto:kirby.a.smith at verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:56 PM
To: Peter Anderson
Cc: James Murray LMC; 'TM'; chris chambers; 'Scar'
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU software GP and
I.A. VS MTM


When the last group buy of Hoppen software was in process, we did it
through Anderson Bros.  Stage 1 (which I got) differed from Stage 1+
only in one respect -- the 1+ included a new 3-bar transducer.  However,
this transducer has no added benefit to Stage 1 performance.  It only
matters when one upgrades later to a higher pressure turbo and perhaps
suitable software to go with it.  Thus, I suspect here that unless one
is planning on staged upgrades and wants the 3-bar transducer for future
upgrades, then there is no point to buying it now.  Although I don't run
his software, I think Ned is correct in his approach here.  You may as
well pay later for the sensor when you upgrade further, as pay now,
unless you suspect that all units will be sold by then.

kirby

Peter Anderson wrote:
>
> I share James' point of view here.  I have been on this list for well over
> two years and while I have heard of the "Lehman" software, I have never
> heard any mention of where / how to obtain it.  As for "binary"
performance,
> my car (stock motor & software) feels that way now.  If the MTM 1+ feels
> similar -just faster, then I'll take it.  If your suggesting that IA will
> improve low end torque I'm skeptical but willing to hear more from those
> with first hand experience.  Is that what you are saying Chris? If Ned is
> not willing to part with his 3-bar sensors except for those who want full
> bore turbo mods then he has effectively separated himself from my money
> unless he can explain how I get the same performance w/o it.  Let's see
some
> dyno graphs.  He should note that I live at sea level and there is plenty
of
> dense air to pump into the combustion chambers - no need to worry about
> altitude compensation her in Portland Maine.  I am presently not
interested
> in changing my turbo as I do not want the torque curve I saw in the dyno
> graph from the nationals (Mance's car).  I have no plans to take my car to
> the track.  I just want more usable street / highway power and no, I'm not
> talking about stoplight drag races.  I would like to hear more from those
> that have driven both.
>
> Peter Anderson
> 93 S4 6-speed
>
> On 06/15/02 11:36 AM, "James Murray (LMC)" <James.Murray at ericsson.ca>
wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what software IA use? Is it there own or do they use
> > Lehmann. Who sells Lehmann S/W?
> >
> > I guess I would want to know why IA doesn't include the 3-Bar sensor
while
> > MTM at least does if they are equal power outputs. At least with the MTM
you
> > have the option for more powerful S/W upgrade later on since they
provide
> > the 3-Bar sensor...
> >
> > Cheers, /James.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:    TM [SMTP:t44tq at mindspring.com]
> > Sent:    June 15, 2002 11:20 AM
> > To:    'chris chambers'; 'Scar'
> > Subject:    RE: [s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU
> > software GP and I.A. VS MTM
> >
> > Chris,
> > Why are you all so set on getting the MTM software? My drive of
> > MTM software was not all that impressive. Igor Kessel has described
> > it as "binary," a characterization supported by several others.
> >
> > IMHO, Lehmann and IA software has a much more progressive power
> > curve
> > that simply feels much better and generally is more refined with
> > equal
> > power outputs.
> >
> > Taka
> >
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