[s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU software GP and I.A. VS MTM

Sun Jun 16 02:58:17 EDT 2002

On my S6, the Stage 1 chip (which I now believe is Lehmann) boosts to
1.3 kg/cm^2, or close to 2.3 bar absolute.  This may be compared to 1.1
for the stock setup.  2.3/2.5 < 4.85/5.00.  I doubt I have a problem
with the non-linear region.  YPMV

Clearly the Stage 1+ you are familiar with generates a higher pressure
and thus needs the 3-bar sensor.  My impression from the previous group
buy was that the Stage 1+ of that buy differed only in the addition of
the 3=bar sensor, and that other than adapting to the new sensor
scaling, the maps were the same.

kirby

Robert Pastore wrote:
>
> Kirby:
>
> I have to strongly disagree.
>
> The pressure transducers measure absolute pressure and out a linear voltage
> from 0-5vdc.  So the stock 2.5 bar sensor can only read 1.5 bar of boost or
> 21.75 PSI.  The reality of the sensor is that it peaks around 4.85 vdc, and
> if to the maximum, loses it linearity.  The ECU then uses this voltage
> signal to determine boost level. Once the signal loses linearity, you are
> asking for trouble because you lose control of boost.  BTW, the TAP 3.2 bar
> pressure transducer is nothing more than a bosch 2 bar transducer, with 2
> resistors added to try to emulate the output of the 3 bar sensor.  I've
> mapped the output of many different sensors, and can assure you , the TAP
> sensor is not linear and doesn't work.
>
> > All of the Hot k24 chipsets need the 3 bar pressure transducer.  I posted
> a stage 1+ boost map that I produced in excel directly from the chip'hex
> dump to the old s-list yahoo files.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/s-car-list/files/stage%201%20plus%20%20boost%2
> 0map.xls  This chipset has a target boost level at full throttle  above the
> limit of the 2.5 bar sensor from idle all the way up to 5750 rpm.
>
> >Playing with different chipset, modifying code, cataloging "what is what"
> has become a hobby/obsession.   I can tell you without reservation that if
> you run a chipset that uses the 2.5 bar sensor (either with a stock k24 or a
> bigger turbo) you are foregoing a huge torque/HP advantage that the MTM 1+ (
> or whatever Ned is calling his 3 bar sensor version) gives.  If you'd like,
> I can map and post the 2.5 bar chipset map from hoppen or Tap for
> comparison.
>
> regards,
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirby Smith [mailto:kirby.a.smith at verizon.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 4:56 PM
> To: Peter Anderson
> Cc: James Murray LMC; 'TM'; chris chambers; 'Scar'
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU software GP and
> I.A. VS MTM
>
> When the last group buy of Hoppen software was in process, we did it
> through Anderson Bros.  Stage 1 (which I got) differed from Stage 1+
> only in one respect -- the 1+ included a new 3-bar transducer.  However,
> this transducer has no added benefit to Stage 1 performance.  It only
> matters when one upgrades later to a higher pressure turbo and perhaps
> suitable software to go with it.  Thus, I suspect here that unless one
> is planning on staged upgrades and wants the 3-bar transducer for future
> upgrades, then there is no point to buying it now.  Although I don't run
> his software, I think Ned is correct in his approach here.  You may as
> well pay later for the sensor when you upgrade further, as pay now,
> unless you suspect that all units will be sold by then.
>
> kirby
>
> Peter Anderson wrote:
> >
> > I share James' point of view here.  I have been on this list for well over
> > two years and while I have heard of the "Lehman" software, I have never
> > heard any mention of where / how to obtain it.  As for "binary"
> performance,
> > my car (stock motor & software) feels that way now.  If the MTM 1+ feels
> > similar -just faster, then I'll take it.  If your suggesting that IA will
> > improve low end torque I'm skeptical but willing to hear more from those
> > with first hand experience.  Is that what you are saying Chris? If Ned is
> > not willing to part with his 3-bar sensors except for those who want full
> > bore turbo mods then he has effectively separated himself from my money
> > unless he can explain how I get the same performance w/o it.  Let's see
> some
> > dyno graphs.  He should note that I live at sea level and there is plenty
> of
> > dense air to pump into the combustion chambers - no need to worry about
> > altitude compensation her in Portland Maine.  I am presently not
> interested
> > in changing my turbo as I do not want the torque curve I saw in the dyno
> > graph from the nationals (Mance's car).  I have no plans to take my car to
> > the track.  I just want more usable street / highway power and no, I'm not
> > talking about stoplight drag races.  I would like to hear more from those
> > that have driven both.
> >
> > Peter Anderson
> > 93 S4 6-speed
> >
> > On 06/15/02 11:36 AM, "James Murray (LMC)" <James.Murray at ericsson.ca>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know what software IA use? Is it there own or do they use
> > > Lehmann. Who sells Lehmann S/W?
> > >
> > > I guess I would want to know why IA doesn't include the 3-Bar sensor
> while
> > > MTM at least does if they are equal power outputs. At least with the MTM
> you
> > > have the option for more powerful S/W upgrade later on since they
> provide
> > > the 3-Bar sensor...
> > >
> > > Cheers, /James.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:    TM [SMTP:t44tq at mindspring.com]
> > > Sent:    June 15, 2002 11:20 AM
> > > To:    'chris chambers'; 'Scar'
> > > Subject:    RE: [s-cars] Current Confirmation list for ECU
> > > software GP and I.A. VS MTM
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > Why are you all so set on getting the MTM software? My drive of
> > > MTM software was not all that impressive. Igor Kessel has described
> > > it as "binary," a characterization supported by several others.
> > >
> > > IMHO, Lehmann and IA software has a much more progressive power
> > > curve
> > > that simply feels much better and generally is more refined with
> > > equal
> > > power outputs.
> > >
> > > Taka
> > >
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