[s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone)

Tue May 14 01:26:49 EDT 2002

I've heard the Wilwoods are decent, but according to some people I know that
have used them...  plan on rebuilding them often!  A Brembo setup will be a
lot more reliable and will go 8-9 times as long before needing a rebuild.

Later,
Dan
'94 S4 (Black/ecru)
North Bend, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael (Prospeed Motorsport)" <michael at prospeedmotorsport.com>
To: <DasWolfen at aol.com>
Cc: <200q20v at audifans.com>; <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: [s-cars] Re: brake conversions for 200q20v - wilwood (& I'm gone)

> First Keith, if you make parts (brake kits) for Audis, you have a vested
> interest to dispute me.
>
> Second, on eh Winston Cup circuit the dominate caliper is Brembo. Pro
> Systems, the largest Brembo racing distributor in the world provides
> caliper/rotors and service to approximately 41 Winston Cup teams. The
> other 9 teams are running Alcon calipers and rotors. No Wilwoods in
> sight!!
>
> On the F1 scene, the dominate caliper is AP which was purchased last
> year by Brembo.
>
> The Wilwood calipers just aren't in the same league as the other major
> brands. There are many reports of the difference between them and the
> majors. The most frequent report I hear is you can feel the flex in the
> caliper under braking. The Wilwoods are used where cost is a MAJOR issue
> and the sacrifice in quality is less critical. When the Wilwood 6 piston
> caliper retails for $377 and the Brembo is $3000.
>
> As to the manufacturer recommendations . . . Maybe I should have stated
> the major caliper manufacturers HIGHLY recommend NOT using a racing
> style (no dust boot) caliper for a street application. They DO NOT say
> the say thing about xdrilled rotors.
>
> I do know about brakes. It is basically the only thing I do. I would
> NEVER recommend or sell a racing style caliper to a customer for a
> street application. You are certainly free to do so if you choose.
>
> BTW, I just saw/read some of the follow up posts to this thread from
> over the weekend . . .  Scott did not "...serve (me) a plate of humble
> pie"  I just gave up on the thread. Scott's techniques of shims, while
> mechanically effective, go against the practices of every major racing
> brake service provider out there. (Pro Systems, TrueChoice, North
> American Race Parts, etc.) IF you have to use shims to make the pads fit
> correctly, then the system was not engineered correctly in the first
> place.
>
> I'm outa here . . . Every time I try to offer some expert help on brake
> systems and the right vs. wrong way of doing things, someone takes to me
> to task. Unlike Scott and others, other than a few (very few) 968
> pieces, the only thing I do 50+ hrs a wk is work on calipers and brake
> systems. I speak on a regular basis with the engineers that work every
> weekend with Winston Cup, IRL, CART and other racing series. I get my
> info from both those folks and my first hand experience.
>
> Just because some of you don't like the truth, because you sold your
> customers improperly engineered or jury rigged caliper/rotor
> combinations, and/or are selling components that were NEVER designed for
> a specific (street) application isn't my fault. And doesn't change the
> facts of the case.
>
> If you want brake info, contact me directly as I will not be on this
> list any longer.
>
> Michael G. Wachholz
> Prospeed Motorsports
>
> 952.249.1169 office
> 651.699.3098 fax
>
> 1735 Norfolk Avenue
> Saint Paul, MN 55116
>
> mailto:michael at prospeedmotorsport.com
> www.prospeedmotorsport.com
>
>
>
> >snip<
> >
> > >  None of the major caliper manufacturers, Brembo, AP,
> > Alcon, Lockheed, Girling, etc. make or recommend using a caliper
> without
> > dust boots on a  street car.
> >
> >  They don't recommend using cross-drilled rotors for the
> > street either, as a safety issue. Wanna take a poll of how
> > many listers convienently disregard that particular item?
> >
> > >  There is also a reason why the Wilwoods are so inexpensive
> > . . . They are not in the same league as Brembo, AP or Alcon. You get
> what you
> > > pay  for.
> >
> >  Do you have test data to back that up? FYI, the dominate
> > brake in all levels of NASCAR is Wilwood. The top classes
> > have a minimum race weight of 3800lbs, are limited to a 15"
> > wheel, and the hand built chassis can cost over $100,000.
> > These cars race on road courses, superspeedways, and 1/2 mile
> > ovals for up to 600 miles. Now with those requirements why
> > would owners like Roush, Yates, Penske, and Childress, who
> > can afford any brake in the world, equip their cars with an
> > inferior product? Subject $100,000 race cars to hazard to
> > save a few hundred dollars? Put the safety of drivers at risk
> > for the same reason? Please explain this, I'm dying to hear
> > your expert opinion on the subject.
> >
> > >  FWIW, you can find used Porsche S4 calipers for $400/pr. And there
> > > are  many suppliers of aftermarket rotors that are 32 mm (1.25")
> > > thick.
> > >
> > >  I don't make anything for Audis, so no vested interest here.
> >
> >  I do make things for Audi's and I dont put my customers at
> > risk with inferior products. If you dont like what I offer,
> > fine, but please refrain from making uninformed and unfounded
> > statements about a product which you obviously know every
> > little about.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 200q20v mailing list
> > 200q20v at audifans.com http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
> >
>
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