[s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info

[Paul Gailus]

The info below from the Eibach German site http://www.eibach.de
confirms the statements made below that the 1517002 HA rear
springs were not originally intended for Quattro applications.
They were intended for the beam axle suspension at the rear of
the FWD Avants. That's not to say that they wouldn't work on
Quattro Avants, it's just that it would seem to be a lucky coincidence.

The listing below also confirms that EW 1516002 HA is correct
for S4/S6 sedans.

Just to confuse matters even more, they list a EW 1521002 HA
part number for the rear S6 Avant springs.

----------------------------
Audi / model: 100 / A6 / product type: Pro-Kit

Sedan
2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.4 D, 2.5 TDI, incl. air-condit., incl. automatic
years:  12.90-03.97
Pro-Kit:  1527.140
front:  EW 1527001 VA
rear:  EW 1515002 HA

Sedan 4WD
2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI, S4, S6, incl. air-condit. incl. automatic
years:  12.90-03.97
Pro-Kit:  1528.140
front:  EW 1527001 VA
rear:  EW 1516002 HA

Station Wagon
2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI,incl. air-condit., incl. automatic
years:  12.90-03.98
Pro-Kit:  1529.140
front:  EW 1527001 VA
rear:  EW 1517002 HA

Station Wagon 4WD
2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI, S4, S6, incl. air-condit.,incl. automatic
years:  12.90-03.98
Pro-Kit:  1530.140
front:  EW 1527001 VA
rear:  EW 1521002 HA

- Paul


----- Original Message -----
From: serge <serge411 at speakeasy.org>
To: Charlie Smith <charlie at elektro.cmhnet.org>
Cc: Audi S Car List <s-car-list at audifans.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info


> What you describe in "1529.40 Kit combination one" is referred to at
Eibach
> as 1529.40E. The "E" designation is for Avants. You may call them vanilla
or
> cookies and cream, makes no difference to me:)  But to other Avant owners
> who wish to have the Eibach kit, it may be helpful to know how to properly
> reference it. According to Scott at Eibach you can still get the 1529.40E
> kit through shox.com, the plain jane vanilla 1529.40 excludes Avants as an
> application. I know of at least one crazy lister who is using these exact
> springs w/ the Bilstein sports, and is happy w/ the results. I hope to
have
> these on the car by mid-late June and will post my impression once I have
> one.
>
>
> Serge Filanovsky
>
> 95 S6 Avant
>
>
>
> > Earlier, serge wrote:
> >>
> >> Fellow Avant owners,
> >> I just spoke w/ Scott Curry at Eibach, he confirmed that pro kit
1529.140E
> >> which is composed of:
> >>
> >> 1527.001VA fronts
> >> 1517.002HA rears
> >>
> >> is the correct kit for the Avant. I seem to recall someone saying that
it
> >> was for an auto non-quattro avant. But according to Scott, they fit all
the
> >> Avants. I asked if this kit was to be used with the Bilstein sports,
and he
> >> confirmed that was the case. These springs are still available, and he
> >> recommended shox.com.
> >
> > Your contact at Eibach is giving you bad information.
> >
> > These spring part numbers are the "combination one" that I described
> > in the earlier email:
> >
> >>>
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination one:    p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination two:    p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination three:  p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
> >>>
> >
> > The 1517.002 Rear springs when used with the rear Bilstein Sport
B46-2066
> > shocks will have the back of your car way up in the air.  To use this
> > combination of parts you will need to machine a new snap ring groove 1
cm
> > closer to the bottom of the shock.
> >
> > The 1516.002 Rear spring is supposedly what shox.com is currently
selling.
> > It is shorter than the 1517.002 Rear spring so that you do not need to
make
> > the additional groove in the shock body.
> >
> > - Charlie Smith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> This is what I wrote earlier:
> >>>
> >>> This is an attempt to summmarize information about Eibach Pro springs
> >>> and Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars.
> >>>
> >>> First, you can NOT go by the Eibach 1529.140 "Kit Number" on the box.
You
> >>> have to look at the actual spring part numbers that are on the
springs.
> >>>
> >>> There are three combinations of springs.  The difference is most
apparent
> >>> in the rear, but the front's are different too.  All three spec's of
Eibach
> >>> springs will lower your car a lot.  Here's a side view of the S6 with
the
> >>> first spec springs on it:
> >>> http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~audi/s6q95/img01.html
> >>>
> >>> There were three combination of spring part numbers in various Eibach
> >>> spring kits that were marked 1529.40 on the outside of the box.  The
first
> >>> section of this discussion covers the just the first two kit
combinations.
> >>> The third section way down at the bottom of this discussion covers the
most
> >>> recent (third) combination of springs.  The Eibach spring part numbers
> >>> which are marked on the springs for each of the three combinations are
> >>> as follows:
> >>>
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination one:    p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination two:    p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
> >>> 1529.40 Kit combination three:  p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
> >>>
> >>> Ok, the discussion on combinations one (Euro kit) and two (USA Kit)
follows
> >>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> >>>
> >>> Here's some notes from Bob Rossato in November 2000 about the
differences.
> >>> The p/n's Bob is noting are those marked on the springs.  The part
number
> >>> for the entire kit (on the box) was marked the same on both types.
That
> >>> number was 1529.140 because in Europe that number was for a different
spec
> >>> kit than the same number as used in North America.  An other archived
email
> >>> said that the Euro kit was for a 2wd Avant Automatic, and that Eibach
said
> >>> that they would be too soft for the heavier Quattro S-cars.  My
personal
> >>> opinion is that the Euro kit is still much better than stock if that's
all
> >>> you can find.
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------
> >>> Bob's notes:
> >>>
> >>> For those of you that have already installed the Eibach Germany
1529.140 kit
> >>> (p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R) that we originally received and may be
> >>> contemplating whether or not you should change them for the Eibach USA
> >>> 1529.140 kit (p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R), here are some of the major
> >>> differences.
> >>>
> >>> The rear spring (p/n 1529.002) from the USA kit is 45mm (1.75")
shorter than
> >>> the 1517.002 rear spring.  The wire diameter is the same.  Overall
diameter
> >>> is the same.  The coil spacing is approx. the same (0.1" difference).
The
> >>> number of active coils is the same, but the number of inactive coils
on the
> >>> USA 1529.140 is 3.5 vs. 5.25 for the German kit, resulting in the
overall
> >>> shorter spring.  Also there is no rubber tubing on the inactive coils
in the
> >>> USA kit like there is in the longer springs from the German kit.
> >>>
> >>> The front spring (p/n 1529.001) in the USA kit is approx.13mm (0.5")
shorter
> >>> and has a slightly thicker wire diameter (16.6mm vs. 16mm) but is
otherwise
> >>> the same as the 1527.001 spring.
> >>>
> >>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> >>>
> >>> Now, regarding the third combination of spring part numbers that has
> >>> recently turned up:
> >>>
> >>> First Dave Dawson wrote on May 13, 2003 (slightly paraphrased):
> >>>
> >>> A friend recently bought the infamous Eibach 1529.140 kit...
> >>> Upon opening the box, there appears to be yet another variable in the
Eibach
> >>> equation.  My set was labeled 1527.001 (fronts) and 1517.002 (rears),
as
> >>> were
> >>> several other lister's sets that I've talked to about Eibachs.  His
rears
> >>> are
> >>> labeled 1516.002.  They are also missing the rubber sleeve that is
installed
> >>> on the "inactive" coils of the spring.
> >>>
> >>> To figure out what's going on, I called Eibach... and after much
delay,
> >>> got on the phone with a tech person.  Here's what he said:
> >>>
> >>> Anyone who got a set of springs labeled 1517.002 for the rears, got
the
> >>> wrong rear spring.  The new number (received from shox.com this week)
> >>> is 1516.002 for the rear spring.  According to the Eibach person
EVERYTHING
> >>> about these two different rear springs is identical (both spring
rates,
> >>> coil diameter, wire diameter) except the 1516.002 is 30mm shorter
unloaded
> >>> and unsleeved.  The free length of the 1517.002 was 335mm, while the
> >>> "correct" 1516.002 is 305mm.  This explains the 1970's "jacked up"
look
> >>> that myself and others have noticed.
> >>>
> >>> [ Note from Charlie:  What Dave heard below from this Eibach
son    ]
> >>> [ is probably incorrect, because this Eibach person doesn't know
about ]
> >>> [ the previous GP confusion of combinations 1 & 2 discussed
e.     ]
> >>>
> >>> The Eibach "technical" person claims that nothing (in terms of spring
> >>> specs) ever changed for this spring set, US or German.  The only
> >>> difference was where they were wound, some here, some in Germany.
> >>> The confusion started in the US when they offered Pro Kit Dampers,
> >>> on which the rear perch problem existed.  For this, they offered the
> >>> spacer.  Otherwise, he claims that they are currently offering the
> >>> ONLY spring kit they have EVER offered in any country.  Part numbers
> >>> have changed, but the specs have remained identical, according to the
> >>> specs he was reading to me.
> >>>
> >>> [ again from Charlie, the Eibach guy appears to be wrong on the
bove.  ]
> >>>
> >>> So on that note... If you bought a 1529.140 Pro Kit from anyone, and
it has
> >>> 1517.002 rear springs, he said that Eibach would replace them with the
> >>> correct springs.  He said those folks should call Eibach at
909.256.8300 and
> >>> talk to Scott Curry at extension 130.
> >>>
> >>> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=