[s-cars] FMIC Alternatives, try the stock one.

[Trevor Frank]

First off I would have to second the go with water injection crowd.  The
only unfortunate thing about it is that it may not be there when you
need it, i.e. you ran out of water.  So even though you have quite a bit
of detonation protection, not to mention the added benefit of no carbon
in the combustion chamber to even further increase you detonation
protection, I would be very careful when I would tune a motor to take
advantage of this fact.  Water injection with an intercooler, now that
is dangerous!!! I may have to save my pennies, in fact I almost did this
first but it just wasn't a big enough project.


Picture of the cap on the bumper, made of aluminum.  If the hood was
shut it fit's just under it.  Mine is a full 12 x 3.5 x 24 side to side.
If I had to guess I would say that about 4-8inches of it are useless,
there is never enough delta T to really do anything in that range.
After a good 45min track session I never see much more than a 2 deg rise
from my basic 3 to 5 deg above ambient.  I made a custom temp reader to
monitor intake temperature 6 inches from the Throttle body.

I see the biggest temperature rise at idle, mainly because I am taking
the temperature reading inside the engine compartment, second to the
fact that there is no air moving over the intercooler except convective.

I used the stock grills and didn't push the front of the bumper down
any.

Now I don't know if I would go any smaller just because 24" fit's so
nicely but I suspect that you would have less pressure drop and no reall
loss in power.  But this is all academic because I really think that top
down would be a stratospheric step compared to side to side as far as
efficiency goes.

I didn't move the AC condenser, I did move the power steering pump
cooler but I probably didn't have to.  On a top to bottom arrangement I
would also probably do a 3" thick core because you loose a lot of
airspeed when trying to get through a large core as well as end up with
some pretty hot air at the back of the intercooler, so the delta T that
drives the temperature change isn't really there anymore IMHO.

So If I had unlimited space, I would have a vary large inlet on a fairly
thin intercooler that is farily short. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Theodore Chen [mailto:tedebearp at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:41 PM
To: Trevor Frank; s-cars
Subject: RE: [s-cars] FMIC Alternatives, try the stock one.

trevor,

i can't quite tell from the pictures, but did you keep the AC condenser?

that IC is huge.  it requires more than just a minor bumper notching.
looks like the IC is sticking out the top of the bumper.  i couldn't
find a picture of the finished car, though.

so do you find the IC adequate in a track session?

-teddy

--- Trevor Frank <tfrank at symyx.com> wrote:
>
> I dunno if I have enough pictures of the process on our site
> www.frankracing.com , but as a general rule when working as a
fabricator
> on anything, you usually spend the least of your time actually
machining
> or welding.  Most is spent on deciding how, building bucks and mockups
> to help decide how, drawing, sketching and sitting around scratching
> your head, we will call this engineering, but only loosly.  Then
getting
> to the point where you can cut, fit, clean to prep for welding and or
> machining.  Although I have a full 12 hours of welding that I did,
most
> of the time was spent figuring out what to do and how to do it.  A
good
> weld is usually marked by good prep and nice fitting, although I am
not
> the best welder I usually try to do pretty good prep work, this will
> almost always take longer to do than the welding.
>
> Now if you are already set up to make something then.. you can do it
> much faster and cheaper, let's say 2k for an intercooler.
>
> So with all that, it is a fun project but just don't think that you
are
> really going to save yourself anything.  If you do it right, I think
> that you will end up with something that might be fractionally better
> and if nothing else is done how you wanted it done.  For me it was
more
> about doing it my way because I am a stubborn sun-o-a-b%$^ who thinks
he
> knows how to do it better, almost always, sometimes I even have the
time
> and motivation to get it done.
>
> If you are going to do it I would recommend doing top to bottom, I
think
> that ASW is going to sell a top to bottom soon to....MIKE?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theodore Chen [mailto:tedebearp at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:32 AM
> To: Trevor Frank; s-cars
> Subject: RE: [s-cars] FMIC Alternatives, try the stock one.
>
>
> --- Trevor Frank <tfrank at symyx.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ya know the stock one if probably the right solution for someone not
> > willing to pay 2k.  Coming from someone who built his own I would
have
> > to say that if you where to buy an intercooler yourself and build it
> you
> > would be hard pressed to do it for less.  First you need access to
> quite
> > a bit of machinery and second the skill and time to do it.  If you
can
> > find someone to do it for less then they probably aren't the kind of
> > fabricator that you would really want doing it for you.  I chuckle a
> bit
> > when people complain about the price because it seems obvious to me
> they
> > have no idea what it takes to do it.
> >
> > The size of the intercooler matters very little, let's say you get a
> > smaller intercooler you may save 2-$300 dollars, but then you have
to
> go
> > thought developing a whole new system.  The labor is basically the
> same
> > so you have an anemic 2-1.7k intercooler.
>
> trevor,
>
> what's involved in building an intercooler?  once you buy the core,
you
> have to add tanks to it.  the tanks have to have an inlet/outlet with
> a tube so you can attach a hose to it.  you also have to weld tabs
> in place for mounting the intercooler.  right?
>
> -teddy
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
> =======
> Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains
> information of Symyx Technologies, Inc. that may be confidential,
> proprietary, copyrighted, privileged and/or protected work product,
> and is meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the
> intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please
> contact the sender immediately, permanently delete the original and
> any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
> _______________________________________________
> S-CAR-List mailing list
> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools


=======
Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains
information of Symyx Technologies, Inc. that may be confidential,
proprietary, copyrighted, privileged and/or protected work product,
and is meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please
contact the sender immediately, permanently delete the original and
any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.