[s-cars] Re: S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29
Kirby Smith
kirby.a.smith at verizon.net
Sun Jul 11 10:54:16 EDT 2004
Wear due to negative camber depends on toe. Toe out equal to negative
camber would almost eliminate wear. Good for autocrossing perhaps, but
a bit hairy for the street. Rear tires on auto x machines can stand
less toe in, or even toe out (my Corvair ran one-eight inch toe out in
the rear), whereas the front tires would tend to never have enough toe
out to compensate for significant negative camber.
kirby
Larry C Leung wrote:
>
> Tony:
>
> When tires get wide, camber mis-alignment issues get exacerbated,
> especially with wide rims. On my Solo2 GTi, which stock specs
> are VERY similar to the UrS (coincidence), I was running 1.3
> degrees negative camber for the Auto-X season, and since I
> didn't winter the car, all of it's simply "fun" drives. Since my
> street rubber and rims on the car were comparatively small
> (195/55-14 on 6 inch rims), the wear on the insides was not
> as bad as Eric described on his UrS, although the insides of
> the fronts did wear notably quicker than the rest of the tires
> though, although rotating frequently got reasonable wear out
> of them. The other issue would be toe-out, which will wear
> out the insides of the tires MUCH more quickly than too much
> negative camber (BTDT while waiting for tie-rod ends for my
> 200Q. Once the toe was fixed, the excess wear stopped).
> Perhaps that's what was wrong with Eric's car.
>
> LL - NY
>
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:07:36 -0700
> > From: "Tony" <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>
> > Subject: [s-cars] Re: UrS4/S6 Front Alignment Specs
> > To: "Fred Munro" <munrof at sympatico.ca>, <RubEric at aol.com>,
> > <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > Message-ID: <001d01c466eb$d638a240$92c7fea9 at thecurranmach>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Thanks Fred.
> >
> > So this confirms the camber specs I've been seeing. But what about
> > the
> > shredding of Eric's tire? It was just out of spec and shredded. Mine
> > was WAY
> > out of spec and didn't. What's at play here?
> >
> > Interested because next upgrade is probably new 17" wheels from
> > stock Avus
> > with either 225 or 235 tires.
> >
> > Tony
> > 96 S6
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Munro" <munrof at sympatico.ca>
> > To: "Tony" <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>; <RubEric at aol.com>;
> > <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:35 AM
> > Subject: UrS4/S6 Front Alignment Specs
> >
> >
> > > The official UrS4/S6 front alignment specs from page T44-4 of the
> > Bentley
> > > are as follows:
> > >
> > > Toe: spec +15' (+0.25 degrees), range +5' to +20' (+0.08 degrees
> > to + 0.33
> > > degrees)
> > >
> > > Camber: spec -50' (- 0.8 degrees), range -15' to -80' (- 0.25
> > degrees
> > > to -1.33 degrees)
> > > Note: Max difference between sides 30' (0.5 degrees)
> > >
> > > Caster: spec +55' (+ 0.91 degrees), range +15' to +95' (+ 0.25
> > degrees to
> > > +1.58 degrees)
> > > Note: max 1 degree
> > >
> > > The figures in brackets are my conversions of minutes to degrees.
> > >
> > > Fred Munro
> > > '94 S4
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tony [mailto:tony.curran at sympatico.ca]
> > > Sent: July 10, 2004 1:22 AM
> > > To: Fred Munro; RubEric at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Tire Wear - Lowered S6
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a link to theCS Tuning site where they are demonstrating
> > the
> > > benefits of their camber plates. The vehicle alignment reports at
> > the
> > bottom
> > > clearly show spec is -1.3 deg to -0.4 degs. This is the same as
> > the outfit
> > > who aligned my car, from the report provided.
> > >
> > > My report also showed what the pre-alignment camber was.
> > > Before
> > > Left -1.1 deg, Right -2.0 degs.
> > >
> > > After
> > > Left -1.3 degs, Right -1.5 degs
> > >
> > > My car was previously owned by someone in Montreal which is
> > infamous for
> > its
> > > potholes. I suspected the camber was out as the right side tire
> > wear was
> > not
> > > consistent with the left side. After the 40000kms in two years,
> > there has
> > > been some extra wear but no shredding and no metal visible. I
> > delayed
> > > re-aligning as I knew I would be replacing suspension and tires in
> > not too
> > > distant future.
> > >
> > > So what is it that has caused Eric's tire to shred. Could it be
> > the
> > > combination of camber spec and wider tire - mine are stock 225 tho
> > they
> > are
> > > all season which are due to be change soon.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > > 96 S6
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Fred Munro" <munrof at sympatico.ca>
> > > To: <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>; <RubEric at aol.com>;
> > <s-car-list at audifans.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 5:08 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [s-cars] Tire Wear - Lowered S6
> > >
> > >
> > > > The front camber alignment spec for the UrS4 (from the alignment
> > machine
> > > > printout at my local dealer) is -1.08 to -0.08. Caster is +0.25
> > to +1.58
> > > and
> > > > toe is +0.04 to +0.17
> > > >
> > > > The inside shoulders of my tires were wearing at a camber of
> > -1.04 with
> > > the
> > > > stock suspension.
> > > >
> > > > HTH
> > > >
> > > > Fred Munro
> > > > '94 S4
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> > > > [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of
> > > > tony.curran at sympatico.ca
> > > > Sent: July 9, 2004 1:12 PM
> > > > To: RubEric at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Tire Wear - Lowered S6
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric,
> > > >
> > > > I too have just lowered my 96 S6 with Eibachs/Bilstein. My car
> > has
> > dropped
> > > > 20mm front and back tho back has 10mm spacer. I maintained the
> > original
> > > > camber plates. Camber after alignment is -1.3 left and -1.5
> > right. I was
> > > > told spec is -1.3 to -0.4 - I'd point you to the ECS Tuning link
> > that
> > > shows
> > > > this but I don't have it on my office PC.
> > > >
> > > > I will keep an eye on the inside edges for wear.
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > > 96 S6
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: RubEric at aol.com
> > > > > Date: 2004/07/09 Fri PM 12:58:40 EST
> > > > > To: s-car-list at audifans.com
> > > > > Subject: [s-cars] Tire Wear - Lowered S6
> > > > >
> > > > > The subject is my treasured S6, chipped w/digital boost gauge.
> > I have
> > 18
> > > > inch
> > > > > Avus wheels with SP 9000 235-40x18 tires and big reds. I
> > installed
> > > Eibach
> > > > > springs and Bilstein shocks lowering the car about 1-3/4
> > inches. (The
> > > > Bilstien's
> > > > > were harsh - the car rode as if the tires had 100 lbs of air -
> > so I
> > > > removed
> > > > > them and reinstalled the original equipment shocks. The
> > resulting ride
> > > is
> > > > > wonderful.)
> > > > >
> > > > > With slotted strut mounts, the car aligned with camber at -1.5
> > deg L
> > > > and -1.2
> > > > > deg R. Specs are - 1.1 deg to -0.1 deg. I realized this was
> > out of
> > > spec
> > > > but
> > > > > it was not FAR out, was it? My plan was to monitor tire wear
> > and to
> > > > replace
> > > > > the camber plates if wear became evident.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I watched for unusual tread wear but none appeared so I
> > concluded
> > > > that
> > > > > I had avoided the expense of a caster/camber adjustment system
> > and was
> > > > okay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! I was looking in the wrong place!
> > The
> > tread
> > > > did
> > > > > not show evidence of excessive wear - the wear was taking place
> > on the
> > > > inside
> > > > > shoulder of the tires. I have never seen such wear. The
> > inside
> > shoulder
> > > > was
> > > > > actually worn concave and the steel belts were showing along
> > about a
> > > foot
> > > > of the
> > > > > circumference! (Pics available, if of interest.) This was
> > after about
> > > > 8,000
> > > > > miles!
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I ordered four new SP 9000's and 2Bennett's
> > camber/caster
> > system.
> > > > > ($O,uch) I am very impressed by how beautifully made these
> > plates
> > are.
> > > > > Installation was very easy. Thanks very much for the group
> > purchase.
> > > That
> > > > really helped.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alignment with the 2 Bennet System yielded -0.8 deg Left and -
> > 0.5 deg
> > > > right,
> > > > > about in the middle of the spec, with everything else within
> > specs.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not think being only so 'slightly' out of spec would
> > result in
> > > such
> > > > > spectacular wear and I wonder if it there is some other
> > problem. Altho
> > I
> > > > now seem
> > > > > to be within spec I will monitor tire wear, especially on the
> > inside
> > > > > shoulders, much more carefully.
> > > > >
> > > > > My thoughts: If you're gonna' lower, you gotta' change the
> > plates!
> > > > >
> > > > > Good Luck,
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric
> > > > > 95 S6
> > > > > Olympic
> > > > > RT 10
> > > > > XK 120 (Hers)
> > > > > Mk IV (Hers too!)
> > > > > FLHR
> > > > > FLHRC (Hers)
> > > > > Chry CQ
> > > > > Some trucks.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > S-CAR-List mailing list
> > > > > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > S-CAR-List mailing list
> > > > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:15:51 -0700
> > From: "Tony" <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>
> > Subject: [s-cars] Just added 2nd rear fog light
> > To: <S-CAR-List at audifans.com>
> > Message-ID: <003401c466ec$fd52e600$92c7fea9 at thecurranmach>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I have just added a second rear fog light to my S6. Quite cheap to
> > do. I'm using LED 1156 bulbs so the power draw is minimal and allows
> > you to tap in to the original wiring to make the connections.
> >
> > Parts:
> > 2 x 1156 LED bulbs obtained off eBay.
> > 1 x folg lamp bulb socket Audi no. 893 945 265 (Cdn$9.34 inc tax)
> > 2 x self stripping tap connections obtained from your local auto
> > parts supplier, or in my case Canadian Tire.
> > 36 inches of speaker wire or similar.
> >
> > This will catch you up with the C5 A6 which has twin rear fogs.
> >
> > Tony
> > 96 S6
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:39:07 -0400
> > From: Robert Myers <robert at s-cars.org>
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Just added 2nd rear fog light
> > To: "Tony" <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>, <S-CAR-List at audifans.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > <6.1.0.6.2.20040710193728.025f3aa0 at pop.registeredsite.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > The reasoning behind having only one rear fog light is that it helps
> >
> > prevent a following driver from thinking it's a brake light.
> >
> > At 07:15 PM 7/10/2004 -0700, Tony wrote:
> >
> > >I have just added a second rear fog light to my S6. Quite cheap to
> > do. I'm
> > >using LED 1156 bulbs so the power draw is minimal and allows you to
> > tap in
> > >to the original wiring to make the connections.
> > >
> > >Parts:
> > >2 x 1156 LED bulbs obtained off eBay.
> > >1 x folg lamp bulb socket Audi no. 893 945 265 (Cdn$9.34 inc tax)
> > >2 x self stripping tap connections obtained from your local auto
> > parts
> > >supplier, or in my case Canadian Tire.
> > >36 inches of speaker wire or similar.
> > >
> > >This will catch you up with the C5 A6 which has twin rear fogs.
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >96 S6
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >S-CAR-List mailing list
> > >S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > When Jesus said, "Love your enemies", I suspect he meant, "Do not
> > kill them".
> > _____
> > Robert L. Myers 304-574-2372
> > Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA WV tag Q SHIP
> > '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen YM ID rmyers25840
> > http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
> > _____
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:55:15 -0700
> > From: "Tony" <tony.curran at sympatico.ca>
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Just added 2nd rear fog light
> > To: <S-CAR-List at audifans.com>, "Robert Myers" <robert at s-cars.org>
> > Message-ID: <003d01c466f2$7e2e5160$92c7fea9 at thecurranmach>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Don't think so. Centre brake light comes on with the brakes. I only
> > use them in rain, snow and, of course, fog.
> >
> > It's the red turning signals that are confusing (which I don't have,
> > by the way).
> >
> > Tony
> > 96 S6
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert Myers
> > To: Tony ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 4:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] Just added 2nd rear fog light
> >
> >
> >
> > The reasoning behind having only one rear fog light is that it
> > helps prevent a following driver from thinking it's a brake light.
> >
> > At 07:15 PM 7/10/2004 -0700, Tony wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have just added a second rear fog light to my S6. Quite cheap
> > to do. I'm using LED 1156 bulbs so the power draw is minimal and
> > allows you to tap in to the original wiring to make the
> > connections.
> >
> > Parts:
> > 2 x 1156 LED bulbs obtained off eBay.
> > 1 x folg lamp bulb socket Audi no. 893 945 265 (Cdn$9.34 inc
> > tax)
> > 2 x self stripping tap connections obtained from your local auto
> > parts supplier, or in my case Canadian Tire.
> > 36 inches of speaker wire or similar.
> >
> > This will catch you up with the C5 A6 which has twin rear fogs.
> >
> > Tony
> > 96 S6
> > _______________________________________________
> > S-CAR-List mailing list
> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> > _____
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > When Jesus said, "Love your enemies", I suspect he meant, "Do not
> > kill them".
> > _____
> > Robert L. Myers 304-574-2372
> > Rt. 4, Box 57, Fayetteville, WV 25840 USA WV tag Q SHIP
> >
> > '95 urS6 Cashmere Grey - der Wunderwagen YM ID rmyers25840
> >
> > http://www.cob-net.org/church/pvcob.htm
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:23:26 -0400
> > From: Kirby Smith <kirby.a.smith at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] RE: The Great Coolant Debate
> > To: "Krasusky Paul (WQQ2PXK)" <WQQ2PXK at ups.com>
> > Cc: s-car-list at audifans.com
> > Message-ID: <40F0887E.6AAE5DEB at verizon.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Tim switched mine from pink to green some time ago. For the same
> > reason.
> >
> > kirby
> >
> >
> >
> > "Krasusky Paul (WQQ2PXK)" wrote:
> > >
> > > Evan unknowingly cooled:
> > >
> > > <<<Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:45:54 -0400
> > > From: "evan at relivmaine.com" <evan at relivmaine.com>
> > > Subject: [s-cars] The Great Coolant Debate
> > >
> > > S-Heads,
> > >
> > > Just purchased my UrS6 in April and was showing it off to a fellow
> > S-Head.
> > > As we were looking under the hood, he turned to me with a
> > horrified look
> > > and scolded me for having "green" coolant in my car. "It's got to
> > be the
> > > red stuff, get that stuff out of there ASAP!">>>
> > >
> > > As I mentioned to Evan off-list yesterday, I had recently flushed
> > out the
> > > green stuff that came in my car with the correct blue. Only to
> > have my head
> > > gasket done @ NEA last week, and when I popped the hood I couldn't
> > help but
> > > notice the NEON GREEN overflow. I ever-so-humbly questioned Tim
> > on it, to
> > > which he replied, "Dextron (or whatever it's called) is better
> > than any of
> > > that other crap, I've had more water pumps, etc. get eaten with
> > blue or pink
> > > than with the green".
> > >
> > > I wasn't about to question his infinite wisdom further. Esp.
> > after doing
> > > such great work to my car.
> > >
> > > So, YMMV, but until my waterpump comes out in 20-30k for a tbelt
> > change, I'm
> > > running green I guess.
> > >
> > > -Paul what do I know K.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > S-CAR-List mailing list
> > > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > S-CAR-List mailing list
> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
> > http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
> >
> >
> > End of S-CAR-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29
> > *****************************************
> >
> >
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