[s-cars] Window issues

Nicholas Stuart nick at newtsplace.com
Wed Sep 15 08:13:53 EDT 2004 

thanks for the info chad. I tried searching the list archives for the info
as I was sure someone had come across it, but to no luck apparently.
Anyways, I think I'll give Chris down at Force 5 a call (as thats where I
got the car from) and see if he can hook me up. If I remember reading
right the one I want ends in a "J" correct? (from sjm site)

I'll dig around and see what I come up with. Thanks for the info, and
until then I'll keep unplugging the silly little relay :) (thank god its
getting to be cold out and I dont need the windows as much)

-Nick

> Nick,
>
> I've been waiting my turn to add to this discussion. I have a '92 also and
> I
> fought the exact same symptoms as you for about 6 months. I have
> documented
> my findings in the archives along with Graydon Stuckey. I am the one who
> helped Teddy Chen find the ultimate cause.
>
> It is indeed the central vacuum control unit. Lets just abbreviate it as
> cvcm. This resides right next to the battery in a foam casing with a few
> electrical connectors and some vacuum lines going to it. It controls your
> locks, your windows and I think it may even have some sunroof control.
> It will cause all the symptoms you describe including the clicking relay
> issue under the drivers kick panel and of course a dead battery.
>
> Anyway, I found this problem 4 years ago after remembering reading about
> it
> in an issue of the Quattro Quarterly. This person found that bad cvcm's
> were
> found in most '92 S4 and '92 100 quattros. So I really have this person to
> thank for helping me(sorry, can't remember the guys name but it was in an
> issue of QQ from roughly 1999) The fix? Find yourself a used cvcm from at
> least a '94 S4 or later '95 S6 or A6 as these part numbers were different.
> It's really only the last letter in the part number that you are looking
> for
> that's different. Don't bother cutting anything to "mask" the problem. I
> paid $150 for a used unit from a '95 A6 4 years ago. I CAN SIT HERE AND
> FEEL
> COMFORTABLE GUARNATEEING YOU THIS WILL FIX YOUR PROBLEM! Good luck and let
> me know if I can be of any more help.
>
> Chad Clark
>
>
> on 9/14/04 9:39 AM, Nicholas Stuart at nick at newtsplace.com wrote:
>
>> Well, I removed that breaker and the relay was still clicking away :(
>> and
>> my window went up by itself. Also, don't I want power to the J139 relay,
>> as with out it my windows wont work at all? (know from having to unplug
>> it
>> so it wont keep clicking).
>>
>> I'm not sure if cutting the wire will even work if that didn't. Any
>> other
>> ideas anyone?
>>
>> Thanks again fred, but unfortunatly it didn't help.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Nick;
>>>
>>> Remove the A1 circuit breaker in the relay box under the hood, drivers
>>> side.
>>> This will take the power off the J139 relay. You won't have to cut the
>>> wire.
>>>
>>> I've attached a copy of the post Teddy refers to below.
>>>
>>> Fred Munro
>>> '94 S4
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to Tom, Igor, Teddy, Calvin, and Dave for responding to my
>>>>>> current
>>> drain question and confirming that the drain was indeed too high.
>>>
>>> A bit of work with a digital ammeter isolated the problem to the
>>> automatic
>>> window closure circuit. Pulling the A1 breaker in the under-hood relay
>>> box
>>> dropped the drain to below 10 mA.
>>>
>>> This circuit is designed to close windows or the sunroof if they are
>>> open
>>> when the car is locked. This feature has never worked on my car. The
>>> circuit
>>> has it's own relay under the driver's side A-pillar kick panel. The
>>> power
>>> supply side is "fused" with a 30 amp breaker in the A1 position in the
>>> underhood relay box. The relay is triggered by a white/yellow wire from
>>> the
>>> power window control module.
>>>
>>> This is apparently a relatively common source of a battery drain
>>> problem -
>>> it is written up on Scott Mockry's website and the recommended fix is
>>> to
>>> cut
>>> the yellow/white wire.
>>>
>>> Removing the A1 breaker fixed my problem - this disables the auto close
>>> circuit and leaves the power windows operational. From this I assume my
>>> relay is either fused closed or is indeed being activated by the
>>> control
>>> module (via the yellow/white wire) and the power drain is in the
>>> circuit
>>> itself somewhere.
>>>
>>> The car now has a 100 mA drain for 30 seconds after the alarm is set,
>>> then
>>> it drops off to 10 mA with a spike to 20 mA every 5 seconds.
>>>
>>> A substantial improvement from 280 mA.
>>>
>>> When I get some time (ha!) I'll pull the relay to check it out.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>>> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of Theodore Chen
>>> Sent: September 13, 2004 7:00 PM
>>> To: nick at newtsplace.com; s-cars
>>> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Window issues
>>>
>>>
>>> nick, check the archives.  you can just pull a relay in the engine
>>> compartment.  fred munro did that - i think it's the A2.  there are
>>> two relays listed as being for the alarm/locking system.  one of them
>>> will shut down the system.  the other one won't produce any apparent
>>> effect.  that one is the correct one.  it's either A1 or A2, if i
>>> remember
>>> right.
>>>
>>> it's good you caught it, because a new J139 costs $300 from the dealer.
>>>
>>> -t.
>>>
>>> --- Nicholas Stuart <nick at newtsplace.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help guys. I think for now I'll just cut the little
>>>> yellow
>>>> wire. A lot cheaper then the $300 for a pumb ;)
>>>> I'll eventually replace it, but at the moment I be poor so snip snip
>>>> it
>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> -Nick
>>>>
>>>>> you're lucky you caught it now.  that J139 relay is expensive and
>>>>> hard
>>>>> to find.  this is your relay with 329 stamped on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> the culprit is your central locking system, which is commanding the
>>>> J139
>>>>> relay to close all the windows.  it causes the relay to click
>>>>> rapidly,
>>>>> and eventually die.  mine was bad.  when i got a replacement, i found
>>>>> the replacement was clicking rapidly, and determined that the central
>>>>> locking module was killing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> it also drains the battery, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/elec.html#windowrelayclick
>>>>>
>>>>> i just cut the wire, but another lister removed a relay (A2?) and
>>>>> that
>>>>> stopped it.  check the archives for this list, sometime this year.
>>>>> i think the other lister was fred munro.
>>>>>
>>>>> -teddy
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Nicholas Stuart <nick at newtsplace.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all, I'm new to the list and 'semi' new to my S4. (Quick
>>>>>> backstory,
>>>>>> 1992 S4 with 240k + miles, one owner car, runs like a champ, few
>>>>>> expected
>>>>>> fixes here and there).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyways, now that that's done with I have a recent problem that I'm
>>>> not
>>>>>> sure where to begin with. My power windows are acting really flaky
>>>> when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> turn the car off. They work fine when driving and have no issues.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> will sometimes not turn off (switches still illuminated and work)
>>>> when
>>> I
>>>>>> turn off the car. They will also, sporadically close if i leave them
>>>>>> open
>>>>>> and leave the car. And the close while locking feature will also
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> occasionally. One last thing is that the big double relay #'ed 329
>>>> (in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> drivers side foot well by the door) clicks on and off really quickly
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> the car is off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For now, to get around this with out it killing my battery every
>>>> night,
>>>>>> I've been removing relay numbered 329 in the panel by the drivers
>>>> side
>>>>>> door. I think its a short somewhere, as it doesnt happen all the
>>>> time.
>>>>>> Where should I look for a broken where to this? Wires going through
>>>> the
>>>>>> door hing area? Or somewhere else? Or could it just be a freaky
>>>> relay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the help/suggestions.
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> S-CAR-List at audifans.com
>>>>>> http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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