[s-cars] VLAC

[Rich Assarabowski]

Furthermore, unless these early hybrids become collector cars, their resale
value is likely to plummet as the next-generation hybrids with longer life
and cheaper battery packs and newer control systems come out.  No one is
going to want to buy your obsolete 2005 clunker in 8 years with a bad
battery pack.

I'd take a TDI any day if fuel economy was an issue.

-- Rich A.
   (don't worry, fuel cell cars won't be around for a while)

-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rossato
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 9:29 PM
To: 'LL - NY'; 'Varon H. Fugman'
Cc: 'Robert Myers'; 's-car list'
Subject: RE: [s-cars] VLAC

I just don't see hybrids as being that great of an option in terms of fuel
economy.  As Larry stated, their mileage is not that spectacular compared to
a TDI.  They tend to be more of a benefit for urban driving.
Due to the way the EPA runs their tests, actual highway mileage is typically
lower than their advertised EPA figures by a good margin.  So the numbers
are a bit deceiving.  Not much the manufacturers can do about that as they
have to publish the EPA numbers and not actual mileage.  

But the big issue is battery replacement cost.  If you're going to replace
it in 2-4yrs it shouldn't be a factor, but if you plan on holding on to it
for the long term be prepared for a very expensive bill when the batteries
fail.  A friend of mine works at Ford and has been involved in the their
hybrid program lately.  He mentioned that their current battery replacement
cost for the Escape Hybrid is $7000.  

I've heard similar prices for the Hondas and Toyotas.  Will that price come
down over the next few years?  Probably.  But it will most likely still be
several thousand dollars.  Add that to the premium that you'll likely have
to pay just to buy one lately, and that more than offsets any potential fuel
economy benefits. 

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com 
> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of LL - NY
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:37 PM
> To: Varon H. Fugman
> Cc: Robert Myers; s-car list
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] VLAC
> 
> 
> Autoweek has a long term Prius in their fleet. You may wish to attempt 
> to read their articles on the car if you are considering one.
> They appear
> to be getting less and less enamored of the car, the longer and longer 
> they've had it. It has been getting fuel milage on par with a Jetta 
> TDI, and it appears to be considerably less fun to drive. Worth your 
> read if your thinking of one.
> 
> LL - NY
> 
> On 4/24/05, Varon H. Fugman <vfugman at globaldialog.com> wrote:
> > My, what a popular topic!
> > 
> > I'll throw in my vote for the Acura TSX... nice handling
> for a front-driver
> > (but not enough power to be a potential urS6 replacement.)
> Subaru Legacy GT
> > good on the non-OOOO AWD side.  Or consider a Saab 9-3 or
> 9-5... not a
> > German car for sure, but again nice handling for a
> front-drive and the
> > 4-cylinder turbo has a plenty of torque.
> > 
> > On the hybrid side, the Toyota Prius is the only way to go. 
>  With the Honda,
> > the small gasoline engine runs all the time with an assist
> from the electric
> > motor.  The Prius is a full hybrid, and can travel for
> several blocks on
> > electric motor power only.  You don't get to shift for
> yourself, but this
> > automatic is no slushbox.  In fact, it is the most
> sophisticated drivetrain
> > in a current production vehicle.  The Prius actually has
> two electric
> > motors, one the prime mover when running on electric power,
> the other is
> > hooked to the engine via a planatary gearset and controls
> the power flow
> > between the gasoline engine, the main motor, and the
> wheels.  It also varies
> > the effective ratio of the transmission.  There are no
> bands, gears to
> > shift, torque converter, or even variable diameter pullies. 
>  Very clever!
> > 
> > But would it be fun to drive on mountin roads?  Not sure,
> although the
> > torque from the electric motor combined with the output of
> the gasoline
> > engine ought to make it a good hill climer (just not a good
> as a 5-cylinder
> > turbo!)  However, unless you do a fair amount of
> stop-and-go city driving,
> > don't look for incredible fuel savings... between
> regenerative braking and
> > shutting of the gasoline engine when not needed, city
> driving is where the
> > hybrid really shines.
> > 
> > Varon
> > 1995 S6--snow car
> > 1999 Saab 9-5 SportWagon--rain car
> > 1996 Mazda MX-5 Miata--sun car
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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