[s-cars] VLAC

[LL - NY]

Autoweek did a cost/benefit analysis assuming battery replacement and
fuel economy advantages on a "quick takes" test of the Honda Accord
Hybrid (probably the best of the lot, from a performance standpoint, but
it "only" gets the fuel economy of their 4 cyl gas Civic models, not up to
TDI fuel economy. But you do get a V6 and 255 net HP, and the strongest
performer of the US 4dr Accord line). They figured it would take about
7 - 11 yrs
to break even compared to the traditional gas V6 Accord, depending
upon the type of driving you do, quicker returns if you are a urban
driver. This took into account
that you do pay more for the car, however there was (at the time of
the test, which may have been last tax year) still a government
incentive that cut you an income
tax break, which was included in the figuring. 

In quick summary, they said, aside from the (slight) performance
advantage, you got greater range and the feeling of green inside for
going with the Accord hybrid, but don't expect any monetary returns
from the purchase.

>From a pollution standpoint, the hybrids DO have a distinct advantage
over the TDI's, but not too much over a well maintained current gas
vehicle of similar size. Either the Diesel or the hybrid would reduce
usage of petroleum, however.

LL - NY

On 4/24/05, Robert Rossato <r0ssat0_987 at att.net> wrote:
> I just don't see hybrids as being that great of an option in terms of
> fuel economy.  As Larry stated, their mileage is not that spectacular
> compared to a TDI.  They tend to be more of a benefit for urban driving.
> Due to the way the EPA runs their tests, actual highway mileage is
> typically lower than their advertised EPA figures by a good margin.  So
> the numbers are a bit deceiving.  Not much the manufacturers can do
> about that as they have to publish the EPA numbers and not actual
> mileage.
> 
> But the big issue is battery replacement cost.  If you're going to
> replace it in 2-4yrs it shouldn't be a factor, but if you plan on
> holding on to it for the long term be prepared for a very expensive bill
> when the batteries fail.  A friend of mine works at Ford and has been
> involved in the their hybrid program lately.  He mentioned that their
> current battery replacement cost for the Escape Hybrid is $7000.
> 
> I've heard similar prices for the Hondas and Toyotas.  Will that price
> come down over the next few years?  Probably.  But it will most likely
> still be several thousand dollars.  Add that to the premium that you'll
> likely have to pay just to buy one lately, and that more than offsets
> any potential fuel economy benefits.
> 
> Bob
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> > [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com] On Behalf Of LL - NY
> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:37 PM
> > To: Varon H. Fugman
> > Cc: Robert Myers; s-car list
> > Subject: Re: [s-cars] VLAC
> >
> >
> > Autoweek has a long term Prius in their fleet. You may wish to attempt
> > to read their articles on the car if you are considering one.
> > They appear
> > to be getting less and less enamored of the car, the longer
> > and longer they've
> > had it. It has been getting fuel milage on par with a Jetta
> > TDI, and it appears
> > to be considerably less fun to drive. Worth your read if your
> > thinking of one.
> >
> > LL - NY
> >
> > On 4/24/05, Varon H. Fugman <vfugman at globaldialog.com> wrote:
> > > My, what a popular topic!
> > >
> > > I'll throw in my vote for the Acura TSX... nice handling
> > for a front-driver
> > > (but not enough power to be a potential urS6 replacement.)
> > Subaru Legacy GT
> > > good on the non-OOOO AWD side.  Or consider a Saab 9-3 or
> > 9-5... not a
> > > German car for sure, but again nice handling for a
> > front-drive and the
> > > 4-cylinder turbo has a plenty of torque.
> > >
> > > On the hybrid side, the Toyota Prius is the only way to go.
> >  With the Honda,
> > > the small gasoline engine runs all the time with an assist
> > from the electric
> > > motor.  The Prius is a full hybrid, and can travel for
> > several blocks on
> > > electric motor power only.  You don't get to shift for
> > yourself, but this
> > > automatic is no slushbox.  In fact, it is the most
> > sophisticated drivetrain
> > > in a current production vehicle.  The Prius actually has
> > two electric
> > > motors, one the prime mover when running on electric power,
> > the other is
> > > hooked to the engine via a planatary gearset and controls
> > the power flow
> > > between the gasoline engine, the main motor, and the
> > wheels.  It also varies
> > > the effective ratio of the transmission.  There are no
> > bands, gears to
> > > shift, torque converter, or even variable diameter pullies.
> >  Very clever!
> > >
> > > But would it be fun to drive on mountin roads?  Not sure,
> > although the
> > > torque from the electric motor combined with the output of
> > the gasoline
> > > engine ought to make it a good hill climer (just not a good
> > as a 5-cylinder
> > > turbo!)  However, unless you do a fair amount of
> > stop-and-go city driving,
> > > don't look for incredible fuel savings... between
> > regenerative braking and
> > > shutting of the gasoline engine when not needed, city
> > driving is where the
> > > hybrid really shines.
> > >
> > > Varon
> > > 1995 S6--snow car
> > > 1999 Saab 9-5 SportWagon--rain car
> > > 1996 Mazda MX-5 Miata--sun car
> > > --
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005
> > >
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