[s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??

Cody Payne cpayne at bconnected.com
Tue May 10 10:34:08 EDT 2005 

Elijah,
	Did you do any pre and post dyno runs when just swapping out the
header from the RS2 to the Tubular?  I am very curious of the HP/Torque
gains in addition to you lowering your full boost threshold by 600 RPM

Thx

cp

-----Original Message-----
From: s-car-list-bounces+cpayne=bconnected.com at audifans.com
[mailto:s-car-list-bounces+cpayne=bconnected.com at audifans.com] On Behalf
Of Elijahallen92 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:22 AM
To: tfrank at symyx.com; bobs6 at msn.com; CaptMagu at aol.com;
s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: Re: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??


 
Trevor,
 I'm another guy running this header. Mine was a little different  since
I 
chose to stay with hybrid KKK's and not make the switch to Garretts at
this 
point since all I've had is bad experiances with garrett turbo's. I
don't  expect 
this header to last very long either but at this point I'm not worried
about 
it and the gains I feel from the header are well worth it for now and I
have 
a guy here that is designing a stainless header to better sute my  
configuration for that day when this one says good bye. Before the
header using  the RS2 
EM the turbo was spooled to full boost by 3600rpms, now with this the
tube 
header its close to 3000rpms and there is no lag between shifts like
there  was 
before, needless to say I'm going to a bigger turbo, I'll use the same
K27  
cold side housing machined to fit the 29 compressor wheel and use the
larger #8 
 hot side. I hope this will put full boost right around 3500-3800 rpms. 
Anyway as  for the tube header, I've been to one track event and it held
up fine 
but the  car wasn't running great due to a coil going bad but I still
drove the 
piss out  of it with no problems other than having to tighten all the
nuts and 
bolts after  every run. I hope to be at another track event next month
and 
the car is running  very strong now so we'll see how she holds up.

Elijah
 
 
In a message dated 5/9/2005 9:36:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
tfrank at symyx.com writes:

Hey we  are both waiting for the answer, I have honestly heard of this.
I have  built a few headers myself, and if it was made of mild steel and
it broke  then I would use stainless, I did this on a rotary motor, a
racing beat,  thick steel header and made new out of 316, it would
literally melt during  every race and I would weld it back together and
patch it up.  After a  few $100 trips to me I finally convinced him to
let me to it right.   At 2300deg F even the 316 didn't have much of a
chance, but I made it a bit  thin so that it would radiate some of the
heat and not store it all and  well it worked.  If I had to do it again
today, I would use  inconel.  The liquidus temperature of mild steel
makes it such that at  turbo temps it will typically just blow out, you
can use really thick  material and coat the inside and it might have a
chance of surviving, or  run your motor rich and keep the egt's down.  I
was involved with a  guy who contracted a local company to make 500
headers for a 1.8t  application, a tube header that could go into the
stock location, our  buddies at TAP, where the only other guy's making
something like this at  the time.  Anyway again the guy cheaped out,
coated steel and he had  an issue with it blowing out around the merger,
he was out 5k.  Even  though he had a few good engineers and fab shops
telling him different some  of his buddies said it would work.  He
couldn't even get the good fab  shops to make it out of steel cuz they
said it wouldn't work.  Now he  is out 5k and has about 100 junk
headers.
IMO steel is wrong, coated steel  inside and out is honestly no better,
you might be able to save it if you  just coat the inside, but coating
the outside is just keeping more heat in  and raising the temp of the
metal and making it more prone to  failure.  I don't see the logic in
mild steel, and honestly have heard  one or two people say to use it, so
I am wondering where people are getting  this info?  If 304 stainless
doesn't work then I would look at if  there are hot spots being
generated
by the design or if there are stresses  being put onto the header by the
down pipe or the turbo, and if that  wouldn't work, 321 stainless
"actually this is where I like to start" is  that doesn't work...well I
know some who have gone to inconel.  Either  way I don't going from
stainless steel to mild steel if stainless didn't  workout.  Earlier
this
month I talked to a few fabricators about this  as well and they where
scratching there heads too.  No fault of haps I  don't think and I am
not
trying to kill his sales or anything.  Its  just that I don't like
people
to say things, and have other people think  that its correct and spread
unsubstantiated info about stuff.  All  headers have design issues, and
longevity issues regardless of the  material, it's not that simple to
build something that will last, I know I  have had to repair and build
new for a lot of people, and had to repair and  build new of my own work
when it's broken.  This just happened to me  recently with a 321 exhaust
that I built for a 1.8t road racing car,  improper bracing of the
exhaust
and 3g turn ripped the wastegate flange  right off. It was not a
temperature related failure of the material per  say, but more of a
bracing and design issue with the header and exhaust  system.  I built
it
to replace a coated weld ell metal header that was  having failure of
the
material issues and design issues.  So we all  fail but starting with a
poor material choice is not giving it much of a  chance.  With that said
I hope that the headers work for these  guys.  


Don't take my word for it, contact,  www.burnstainless.com  take a look
at http://www.spdexhaust.com   give the guy's at www.wolfaircraft.com a
call.  

-----Original  Message-----
From: Bob DG [mailto:bobs6 at msn.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 09,  2005 5:57 PM
To: Trevor Frank; CaptMagu at aol.com;  s-car-list at audifans.com
Subject: RE: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034  EFI??

So what about the stainless being brittle? Does it fit better  than the 
Swedish unit?

>From: "Trevor Frank"  <tfrank at symyx.com>
>To: "Bob DG" <bobs6 at msn.com>,  <CaptMagu at aol.com>,
<s-car-list at audifans.com>
>Subject:  RE: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!- 034 EFI??
>Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:51:53  -0700
>
>
>As well as the down pipe.  All the same  stuff, basically off of the
>700hp 034 efi 2.3l  aan.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
>[mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]  On Behalf Of Bob DG
>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:44 PM
>To:  CaptMagu at aol.com; s-car-list at audifans.com
>Subject: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!-  034 EFI??
>
>Related to Hap's post, does anyone have any  experience with the 034
EFI
>tubular header>
>
>  >From: CaptMagu at aol.com
> >To: s-car-list at audifans.com
>  >Subject: [s-cars] Oh Mama!!!
> >Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:15:42  EDT
> >
> >S-heads
> >
> >The Happersized  Special roared back to life after 3 days under the
very
> >capable  ife of Evahboot's resident doctor, Dave Dawson. I am tired
so
>  >here's a link
> >to an AW post with install pics. One word  Wow!
> >
>  >http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/msgs/64914.phtml
> >
>  >Hap, wit dakine few words from Evahboost, Maguire
>  >_______________________________________________
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>  >http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/s-car-list
>
>
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