[s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's

[R. Mair]

OK, i guess i need to make this clear enough to understand. First, I've spent weeks at Bosch headquarters, and countless hours in schools across the country learning and dealing with engine management systems for VW and Audi cars. I believe I can speak  intelligently on this subject. 
Audi has had Bosch supply most electrical parts for decades. This includes alternators, starters, volt regs. etc, as well as the bulk of the engine management systems. Oh... and filters etc... Bosch in general has built some amazing systems. The old CIS units of the  late 80's, early 90's were so outdated, yet passed California's strict emissions test. Bosch and Germans cars were one and the same it seemed. Bosch clearly has had some quality control issues here of late. As a car manufacturer, what do you do? do you suddenly ditch a major supplier in search of another one that has never worked with your cars? It would take YEARS for another company to pick up where Bosch left off. Would that be the best way to go or do you assume Bosch will fix the problems sooner than later? Valeo had problems with heater cores in mid-80's VW's. A recall was offered. In general, their quality is somewhat better today. 

so what you are saying Taka is that Audi should look into a crystal ball and see that in 50k miles, they are going to have MAF failures, or perhaps coolant sensor failures, or even notice that ICU's were going to fail at some point? None of these particular parts are placed wrong in the engine compt! I'm not thrilled with Audi overall myself, I think i've made that clear in previous posts. but you are not correct in some of your assumptions. Turbo placement is not the major factor for the failings in Audi's. The initial rec. by Audi to extend oil changes and use conventional motor oil was not a smart move. Yes, Dumb Dumb Audi! Given  synth oil and 5k miles, you won't see a tenth of the failures. In my garage, i've seen allot more 1.8t failures than 2.7, as 2.7's came from the factory with synth oil installed. but they still suggested 10k oil changes. Still not good. 

You don't know 2.7's very well Taka. For the most part, they are pretty darn tough, as far as the internals go. There was a 01 S4 speedvision cup car at the Duryea hillclimb a few weeks ago, actually took fourth fastest overall. It had stand alone engine management, K04 turbos and about 2500 race miles on the stock, un touched bottom end. I'll bet it won't be rebuilt for some time after that. What i was ref. to a time bomb being, is what mods do to a stock engine. I'll take ANY audi turbo thats huffed to the hilt on a stock engine before i'd do the same on a Japanese engine. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Taka Mizutani 
  To: R. Mair 
  Cc: calvinlc at earthlink.net ; S-CAR-List at audifans.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [s-cars] WAS gas prices, now racist subaru's


  Rolf-
  You're excusing a ton of faults, blaming the suppliers?!? The OEM is responsible for ensuring that the quality of the components that suppliers sell them are up to par, otherwise it reflects poorly on the OEM. Who do you think people blame when there is a problem with their cars? Do they blame Valeo, saying "man, Valeo makes crappy electrical components." No. They blame Audi. 

  The turbos on the 2.7T go rather regularly- it's not the extended oil change intervals that kill them- it's the design of the engine. That same little K03 turbo lives much longer in the 1.8T engine. Putting the turbos where they're located in the 2.7T engine compartment is what shortens their life- not enough cooling, IMO.

  What about the other stuff:

  instrument cluster issues- VW A2, A3, A4; Audi type 44, C4, C5, B5, B6, D2
  control arm issues- B5, B6, C5
  transmission issues- D2
  oil leak issues- D2
  ignition coils and ignition components- C4, B5
  diff seals- ongoing since type 44
  turbo failure- B5, B6, C5
  MMI issues- D3
  miscellaneous electrical problems- ongoing since type 44 days or earlier, hasn't gotten better

  Time bomb on the Subaru? No more so than the C5 2.7T- you chip the 2.7T, it's just a matter of when, rather than if, the turbos fail. RS4 turbos fail much less frequently- larger oil passages, much thicker impeller shaft. Coming from a auto mechanic, I'm pretty shocked that you're willing to state that the Audis are so much better than other cars out there. 

  I happen to like Audis, that's why I've owned them- no way would I put up with that stuff if I didn't. But your statements are just outrageous. Lexus simply doesn't have these issues, as a shining example of a very complex car with tons of "stuff" in it that doesn't break very often. They also don't blame their suppliers for problems. 

  Taka