[s-cars] Front Suspension clunking (still)

[matt ludwig]

I have the exact same front end cluck (left front) on my avant as  
Serge describes and have messed with it to no end as well. Has H&Rs  
w/ Bilstein's w/ original camber plates (not Igor mod'd) and has  
original control arms and bushings. Those were my first guess but  
upon complete removal/ inspection by my trusted mechanic, these were  
in great shape to him and when reinstalled, very tight and no play  
when pried. Also had the top nuts of struts on cambers tourqued and  
replaced the cambers w/ new OEM versions and still clucking there. My  
thought is that the Bilsteins are noisy and may be moving in the tube  
as Serge describes. Again, only a guess.

matt ludwig.
Lima, Peru


On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:19 AM, Serge Filanovsky wrote:

> Steve,
>
> FWIW I have also been struggling with the dreaded front end  
> cluncking though
> I think my case is more extreme. Slow speed pavement irregularities  
> (of
> which there are plenty on my local Brooklyn "roads") make so much  
> noise that
> the car sounds and feels like an old beat up taxi. This started  
> happening
> after Bilstein/Eibach/2B camber plate install a few months back.
> Interestingly, the Bilsteins were installed first with stock  
> springs (don't
> ask) and though I only drove the car less that 100 miles, I heard  
> no noises
> (other than the axle bolt that, ahhemm... Bell Audi...Rahway,  
> NJ ... failed
> to torque down properly). I had my regular mechanic install the  
> Eibachs and
> the 2B plates. That’s when the noises really started.
>
> At first I thought it was the plate (only one side seemed to make  
> noise).
> Indeed, the spherical bearing was loose in the black slider  
> housing, it was
> not seated firmly against the large circlip (about 1mm of movement, my
> unmeasured guesstimate). 2B sent a replacement, it did not solve the
> problem, Ken said to torque down on the top strut mount nut (44 lb/ 
> ft) which
> I did, no help.
>
> Talking to folks at S//Fest I now suspect the inserts are flopping  
> around
> inside the housing tubes. Thanks again, Bell Audi, I will be  
> ripping the
> whole mess apart, as soon as I can find a place to do it. Side-of- 
> street
> garage has been deemed inadequate for this chore.
>
>
> Serge Filanovsky
>
> 95.5 S6 cluncky Avant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Steve clunked:
>>
>> <<<Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:23:36 -0700
>> From: "Steve Voit" <stevevoit at comcast.net>
>> Subject: [s-cars] Front Suspension clunking (still)
>>
>> I have worsening front end noise on which I'd like your opinion:
>>
>> *    Distinct noise (metallic-ish creak or clunk) (right or left
>> side, or
>> both sides) principally when changing direction such as backing from
>> drive
>> and then proceeding forward.  Most stop signs.  Sometimes simply when
>> braking and accelerating.  Or the crown jewel: backing and turning  
>> from
>> a
>> parking spot in a hilly parking lot.
>> *    I had the 2 Bennett camber plates installed along with
>> Eibach/Bilstein about 7000 miles ago, and drive smooth roads.
>> *    After first hearing the noise I had my control arms replaced
>> *    More recently 4000 miles later I replaced my sway bar bushings
>> and
>> tightened up all subfame mounts.
>> *    My sense is that it is lighter (lower mass) components that are
>> causing the noise, and that the subframe stuff is not causal.
>>
>> Theories:
>>
>> 1.    Fenders liners not adequately trimmed.  This was 2Bennett's
>> first
>> reaction, I'll check this although I have reservations because the  
>> noise
>> can
>> equally occur during very quiet periods, suspension-wise, such as  
>> just
>> turning in a parking garage at creeping speeds, where I wouldn't  
>> expect
>> suspension deflection.
>> 2.    Inadequate torque on strut inserts. (favorite theory) 2Bennett
>> suggest its difficult to achieve the 175-200 lb-ft torque on the  
>> strut
>> collar.  They have seen (only once) the lower part of the strut  
>> inserts
>> make
>> noise under this condition.  Suggested that I tighten and/or  
>> machine a
>> spacer collar for the strut.  This dimensional situation was worse on
>> older
>> cars such as 4000's where the diameter of the insert was very much
>> different
>> from the strut housing.
>> 3.    Play in metallic ball on Camber Plate.  2Bennett suggests the
>> plate
>> was designed to be silent.  My mechanic doesn't think he's observing
>> enough
>> motion at this location to make the noise.
>> 4.    I recall listers commenting on noise resulting from an
>> interference
>> b/w the sway bar and the conduit pipe that carries wiring across  
>> (under)
>> the
>> engine.  I don't have information on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?  I want to check everything out as long as I'm spending
>> the $$
>> to have a look.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Steve in Seattle
>>
>> 95.5 S6>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve-
>>
>> Damn that saga sounds familiar, and has been kicked around on list  
>> for
>> while now with seemingly no tangible conclusions.  My case is same as
>> yours minus camber plates.  I even had the strut top mounts and  
>> bearings
>> done.  All I know is it is better now, something I did (likely the
>> latter) got rid of it.  Mostly.  Bilsteins are tight as are their  
>> caps,
>> heck I even added oil down the housings when we did the install to  
>> aid
>> in internal strut dampening in the housing.
>>
>> Still sounds like crap up there.  Sometimes.  Which is the best  
>> part...
>> it's all intermittent.  Bill Perron and Iiken this wonderful  
>> phenomena
>> to feeling like the entire front end is about to fall off.  And  
>> then it
>> feels good again.
>>
>> I still get that 'creek' when I return the wheel from right turns to
>> center but that's not a clunk, speculation was like you said on that
>> metal wiring conduit that runs across back of pan / sway bar.  I  
>> pried
>> on it to create distance, still creeky.  Sounds great in my parking
>> garage oh yes...
>>
>> My conclusion is like Serge aptly said, "sometimes my car starts  
>> to feel
>> all used up" (Serge, trademark).  Then on somedays it's fine.  I just
>> beat on it harder and it seems to help.
>>
>> Or something.
>>
>> HTH.  Or doesn't.  Not sure.
>>
>> -Paul
>>
>> ps.  wonder if I should address that torn rack boot before I cook
>> something else up there, naaaaaaa maybe it'll heal...
>>
>>
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