[s-cars] Quattro.... there is no substitute

[Vincent Frégeac]

You should have never posted this link. Now I have to add yet another line
to the list of things-to-do-before-I-die: Park in a snow bank with a 2CV
Sahara, or even better a Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak Edition. Gawd, park, or
better said launch, a 1000cv, twin engine, four wheel drive car on a snow
bank could really ashame all my previous snow bank records, I mean those I
didn't get stuck into.



Vincent thinking I should may be consult about this snow bank thing F

2007/2/14, calvinlc at earthlink.net <calvinlc at earthlink.net>:
>
> If you guys think the Haldex is bad you should check out all the new cars
> equipped with the Borg Warner clutch pack system in the center rather than
> any differential at all.  While similar to the Haldex it seems like this
> is
> even worse from what I have seen.  One of my friend's got stuck with her
> Subaru Baja...she couldn't understand why only one wheel was spinning on
> her
> all wheel drive car :)  Well, the S4 with a tow strap on a sheet of ice
> pulled it out of the snow bank it was in with no problem.
>
> You have to be careful these days especially, because normally reliable
> companies, like Subaru for instance, are starting to switch over some of
> their fleets to this new system because they don't need to pay for a
> differential this way.
>
> Check out this link for the scoop on which one of the newer cars come with
> this crap system.....it might surprise you that thinks like certain Grand
> Cherokees are on this list.  Look under the "Clutch Pak Coupling" section
> -
> you will find numerous examples here.  I looked on Borg Warner's site and
> they have already sold well over 1 million units of this trash.  It's
> bordering on false advertising to call this AWD.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_wheel_drive
>
> --Calvin
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com
> [mailto:s-car-list-bounces at audifans.com]On Behalf Of LL - NY
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:31 PM
> To: Taka Mizutani
> Cc: s-car-list
> Subject: Re: [s-cars] Quattro.... there is no substitute
>
>
> Sorry to hear of the difficulties of Haldex, Taka.
>
> We had 5+ of snow/sleet on top of sleet, and snow this morn. The Saabaru
> on
> RSi's handled
> things, pretty much like a quat, except with a bit of a loose tail vs. the
> planted ass of a quattro.
> It did quite well, this morning (speeds under 25, really needed to keep it
> there) was decent,
> this afternoon (after we (my car "pool") were released, coverage was set,
> so
> we could go home)
> was a different story. There were at least 21" of snow on the ground, with
> drifts, road had about
> 9" of broken up (by other vehicles) snow, essentially unplowed. We were
> told
> that they last plow
> run was at 3 PM, and we hit the road at 3:10. Opposite lane was plowed.
> They
> plowed the wrong
> lane. So alternating between "wrong side" of the road driving where vision
> was clear, and "right
> side" around blind hills, curves etc, we set out. Here, I wish I was in
> the
> //S-car. The back end
> did want to come around often, so keeping one's foot in and countersteer
> was
> the day's mantra
> the whole 8 miles. Quite a bit less settled than the quattro (been through
> a
> 4KQ (QI), 200Q (QII)
> and the //S6 (QIII), so I would concur, Quattro, there is no substitute.
>
> LL - NY
>
> On 2/14/07, Taka Mizutani <t44tqtro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I hate to sound like a Porsche ad, but there really is no substitute for
> > Quattro.
> >
> > Today we received about 3" of ice and snow, with a nice slushy layer of
> > snow
> > on top of the roads
> > and slick ice underneath. Not a good combination at all.
> >
> > That said, I'd say these types of conditions are the most challenging,
> in
> > terms of traction,
> > kind of like loose gravel or mud.
> >
> > With the V70R shod with Nokian WR, I can officially say that Haldex
> sucks
> > the big one.
> >
> > I have not had issues with the car in fresh *snow* but this icy stuff
> has
> > the car completely
> > confounded.
> >
> > Front drive starting off, then wheelspin and subsequent yaw, then DSTC
> > tries
> > to get things under
> > control and with some countersteering and throttle inputs, it rights
> > itself.
> > This cycle repeats over and
> > over with Haldex, because every time things get steady again, it reverts
> > to
> > FWD. This totally sucks.
> >
> > With the 5ktq on General Winterfire 195/65R15, I never had these issues.
> > With the 200q on Nokian NRW 225/45R17, I never had these issues.
> > With the A4q on Dunlop M2 205/55R16, I never had these issues.
> >
> > All of the Audis were remarkably consistent in their responses- icy
> > conditions didn't cause the car to
> > freak out. Zero traction is zero traction, but when there is some
> > traction,
> > having the car go from 100/0
> > to 50/50 or whatever, constantly changing radically, is really
> ridiculous.
> >
> > I've had similar issues with Haldex on the Audi TT, so I really don't
> > think
> > it's a Volvo-only problem.
> >
> > Also, DSTC makes the car extremely difficult to drive- you can't
> initiate
> > any slides- the car wants to
> > perpetually understeer, makes it very difficult to turn on a really low
> > traction surface. Looks like I'll be
> > driving home with DSTC off (hit the button *7* times to turn it off!).
> >
> > Taka
> > wanting an Audi again in a very bad way
> > _______________________________________________
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> > S-CAR-List at audifans.com
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> >
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